Adam & Eve??

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
someone out there should get the point. you would to if you would try a little.

i will give you a hint: doesn't matter what of those little things i said apply to you in particular.

I know.

The question was asked; "What would life be like on earth today if Adam & Eve had not sinned by eating of the fruit?"

I answered; "It would be perfect."

Then you started in with the idea that somehow "perfection" wasn't as good as having material things.

You have a very narrow concept of life.

Originally posted by josephw
I know.

The question was asked; [b]"What would life be like on earth today if Adam & Eve had not sinned by eating of the fruit?"

I answered; "It would be perfect."

Then you started in with the idea that somehow "perfection" wasn't as good as having material things.

You have a very narrow concept of life.[/b]

i was merely giving examples of how much more todays life has over the nothingness you call perfection.

the point i was making was you hypocritically claiming that particular way of life to be perfect while playing on the computer and enjoying the comforts of civilized life.

i would believe you to be sincere when you give up all your posessions and go join a nudist colony in some woods somewhere and catch and cook your own food

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
i was merely giving examples of how much more todays life has over the nothingness you call perfection.

the point i was making was you hypocritically claiming that particular way of life to be perfect while playing on the computer and enjoying the comforts of civilized life.

i would believe you to be sincere when you give up all your posessions and go join a nudist colony in some woods somewhere and catch and cook your own food

Hang on a minute.

Do you remember the question that originated this thread?

You replied to my reply to the question what would life be like if Adam and Eve hadn't eaten of the fruit. I said it would be perfect. That answer was given within the context of the question. It's a perfectly legitimate answer.

Your problem is you can't picture it. So you have no choice but to obfuscate.

It's like trying to explain something to a child who is too immature to see the whole picture and keeps insisting on having their way.

Originally posted by josephw
Hang on a minute.

Do you remember the question that originated this thread?

You replied to my reply to the question what would life be like if Adam and Eve hadn't eaten of the fruit. I said it would be perfect. That answer was given within the context of the question. It's a perfectly legitimate answer.

Your problem is you can't picture it. So you h ...[text shortened]... child who is too immature to see the whole picture and keeps insisting on having their way.

ah sparky but here you are wrong. a question has been asked and you answered. that is where i come in. i don't agree with your answer and i am giving mine. it is a difference of opinions. however you are not prepared to discuss your opinion. and you call a child anyone who doesn't see it your way.

you have given an opinion and i disagreed. also i given arguments as to why. where are your arguments that sleeping on rocks, eating berries and not accomplishing anything is the perfect life?

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
ah sparky but here you are wrong. a question has been asked and you answered. that is where i come in. i don't agree with your answer and i am giving mine. it is a difference of opinions. however you are not prepared to discuss your opinion. and you call a child anyone who doesn't see it your way.

you have given an opinion and i disagreed. also i given a ...[text shortened]... nts that sleeping on rocks, eating berries and not accomplishing anything is the perfect life?

You don't agree with my answer? Then you obviously don't understand the question.

According to the Bible Adam and Eve lived in paradise. Right?
Everything was perfect. Right?
If Adam and Eve had not eaten of the fruit we would still be living in paradise. Right?

So therefore, my answer is correct and yours is wrong.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
how do you define better life?

is it lack of hardship? a life where nothing happens to you is preferable to a life where good and bad happen, even if the bad happens more often?


what did adam and eve get to do in the garden of eden? they had a naming ceremony of all the plants and animals and that was about it. sitting in the sun, eating fruit. taki ...[text shortened]... g more enlightened than those shepherds(or so we claim) we can find new meanings to this story.

Ouch.

how do you define better life?

is it lack of hardship?
Here, a 'better life' is defined first and foremost as communion with God: the very point of our creation in the first place. Granted, all of the other stuff that went along with Eden is certainly far preferred to the crap we go through on a daily basis, but that aspect is--- by far--- the pinnacle of man's existence.

a life where nothing happens to you is preferable to a life where good and bad happen, even if the bad happens more often?
What happened before the fall can hardly be considered 'nothing.' Their lives were overflowing with joy. I'd say that's a pretty good state.

what did adam and eve get to do in the garden of eden? they had a naming ceremony of all the plants and animals and that was about it. sitting in the sun, eating fruit. taking a dump, eating some fruit. sleeping. eating some more fruit. sitting in the sun.
To hear you say it, their life sounds so... ordinary. Let's examine our lives:
we organize and categorize our lives into manageable compartments
set aside some time in the day for work
set aside some time in the day for play
set aside some time in the day for eating
set aside some time in the day for sleeping
every once in a rare while, we
set aside some time in the day for sex
oh, and we take dumps every so often, too.

Yet, on top of these damn exciting activities, we also
set aside time in the day to shovel snow (or chop wood/hoe weeds/etc.)
set aside some time in the day to pay bills
set aside some time in the day to deal with the IRS
set aside some time in the day avoiding traffic police
set aside some time in the day battling our ex'es in divorce court

Contrast our blissful existence with that of Adam and the woman, wherein their days were unmarred by physical pain, their surroundings were perfect and they each had an unbelievable specimen of physical perfection upon which to gaze. So thoroughly stimulating was their existence that the only vacation possible was sex! What we fantasize about, they lived. Whole industries have been created in a vain attempt to replicate what these two had without effort.

Every situation we consider a negative from our existence, they didn't have. But they had the biggest positive which only a few now ever experience: daily communion with the Creator of the universe.

What you consider satisfying sounds more like an attempt at 'reverse sour grapes.'

Originally posted by josephw
You don't agree with my answer? Then you obviously don't understand the question.

According to the Bible Adam and Eve lived in paradise. Right?
Everything was perfect. Right?
If Adam and Eve had not eaten of the fruit we would still be living in paradise. Right?

So therefore, my answer is correct and yours is wrong.

According to the Bible Adam and Eve lived in paradise. Right?
right.
Everything was perfect. Right?
wrong. everything was nice. and boring. they had nothing to worry about. but they had nothing to be happy about either. nothing happened to them. sure they were supposed to "rule" over the animals. what do you think that would be like? "pig, do a back flip. now do another. now leave me alone, i am bored". they accomplished nothing. sure they never died, but they never lived either. they were never driven to change their environment, to better themselves. no progress. nothing to be proud of. no purpose.

If Adam and Eve had not eaten of the fruit we would still be living in paradise. Right?
right.

So therefore, my answer is correct and yours is wrong.
wrong. see above. sure it is my humble opinion. diferent from your opinion.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
[b]According to the Bible Adam and Eve lived in paradise. Right?
right.
Everything was perfect. Right?
wrong. everything was nice. and boring. they had nothing to worry about. but they had nothing to be happy about either. nothing happened to them. sure they were supposed to "rule" over the animals. what do you think that would be like? "pig, ...[text shortened]... s is wrong.[/b]
wrong. see above. sure it is my humble opinion. diferent from your opinion.[/b]

"wrong. everything was nice. and boring. they had nothing to worry about. but they had nothing to be happy about either. nothing happened to them. sure they were supposed to "rule" over the animals. what do you think that would be like? "pig, do a back flip. now do another. now leave me alone, i am bored". they accomplished nothing. sure they never died, but they never lived either. they were never driven to change their environment, to better themselves. no progress. nothing to be proud of. no purpose."

The part about the pig is really funny.


Your going to have to use your imagination if you're going to understand what it must have been like in the garden. But first you're going to have to unlearn what it's like living here.

Do you really think it's boring to:

Never be sick.
Feel pain.
Sorrow.
Unloved.
Confused.
etc.

How would you like to travel at the speed of thought?
Or construct an entire world?
Or have the ability to learn to do anything.
How would that be boring?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Ouch.

[b]how do you define better life?

is it lack of hardship?
Here, a 'better life' is defined first and foremost as communion with God: the very point of our creation in the first place. Granted, all of the other stuff that went along with Eden is certainly far preferred to the crap we go through on a daily basis, but that aspect is--- by fa ...[text shortened]...
What you consider satisfying sounds more like an attempt at 'reverse sour grapes.'[/b]

communion with God we have today. it's called faith and prayer. you just have to want it.

Their lives were overflowing with joy
like what? give an example of a joyous activity adam and eve did? could it be sex? i wonder what the bible says on that subject.


your characterization of modern life is fascinating. bills, irs, divorce courts. marvelous.
i guess we should simply forget art, literature, science, having children, watching them grow, be satisfied of a particular hard feat we accomplished, overcoming obstacles, leaving a memory of ourselves behind.


Contrast our blissful existence with that of Adam and the woman, wherein their days were unmarred by physical pain, their surroundings were perfect and they each had an unbelievable specimen of physical perfection upon which to gaze.
awesome. the same perfect surroundings to gaze each day, the same perfect specimen of physical perfection on which to gaze(note that you used gaze not talk to). the same specimen with which to discuss the same neverchanging perfect surroundings, the same non-existent topics. in a world in which nothing happens, how long can you go before you are bored out of your mind? what communion(discussion) can us monkeys have with the perfect ultimate being?

So thoroughly stimulating was their existence that the only vacation possible was sex!
oh noes, you mean they fornicated without being married? or if you think they were "married in the eyes of god" did they have sex for the sole purpose of pleasure and not having children? and if that is true, how much sex could them sex-addicts have before getting bored as well?

But they had the biggest positive which only a few now ever experience: daily communion with the Creator of the universe.
so basically you admit that mostly all the joy they had, we can have today as well if we really want to.

Originally posted by josephw
"wrong. everything was nice. and boring. they had nothing to worry about. but they had nothing to be happy about either. nothing happened to them. sure they were supposed to "rule" over the animals. what do you think that would be like? "pig, do a back flip. now do another. now leave me alone, i am bored". they accomplished nothing. sure they never died, entire world?
Or have the ability to learn to do anything.
How would that be boring?

How would you like to travel at the speed of thought?
Or construct an entire world?
Or have the ability to learn to do anything.
How would that be boring?

i don't recall them having the power of creating an entire world or travel the speed of light. the ability to learn to do anything is again nowhere in the bible. wasn't that gained once they tasted from the tree of knowledge of good and evil? if not, how wise could they have been to not know they shouldn't disobey god? either way, not very smart either.
so what else do you have?

but i asked for an example, concrete example of what they did each day in the garden. something interesting to do while being naked. (sex might be a candidate to that certain interesting activity but we would have to discuss the christian view about sex then so give me another example)

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
how do you define better life?

is it lack of hardship? a life where nothing happens to you is preferable to a life where good and bad happen, even if the bad happens more often?


what did adam and eve get to do in the garden of eden? they had a naming ceremony of all the plants and animals and that was about it. sitting in the sun, eating fruit. taki ...[text shortened]... g more enlightened than those shepherds(or so we claim) we can find new meanings to this story.

I can of have to agree on this one to a point. Not the disobedience to God but what would man be doing as Zahlanzi puts it. If heaven or paradise is just floating around on clouds and all I don't know if I would like it all that much. However ever I don't think paradise or heaven is really like that.



Manny

Problem is we really have no idea what paradise really is. Communing with God sounds awesome!





Manny

Originally posted by menace71
Problem is we really have no idea what paradise really is. Communing with God sounds awesome!





Manny

mmm, i dunno Manny, Bible gives some quite big hints.

Originally posted by menace71
Problem is we really have no idea what paradise really is. Communing with God sounds awesome!





Manny

Paradise is completely subjective, what may be paradise for someone, might be utter torture for another.

One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Paradise is completely subjective, what may be paradise for someone, might be utter torture for another.

One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

do you think there will be drummers in paradise, Noobster?