Originally posted by AThousandYoung The only reason thugs haven't already robbed you and raped your female relatives is because mightier people - the police - protect you. There is also the possibility that you have might of your own in the form of personal weapons which would help protect you and yours.
Originally posted by AThousandYoung Nothing. You have an option to simply "affirm".
Yes...but if our country has no official religion, why is there a Bible in the courtroom? Why is it illegal to pray at football games - freedom of religion, right?
It's rather depressing to still see the absurd claim that without some magical super being dictating a set of rules to humans there is no such thing as objective morality. Of course, there are many systems of thought that posit an objective morality without a God. The Laws of Karma are an example; these are self-regulating laws of nature. There are many more.
I also take issue with ATY's view that without police or other forces, the normal state of humans is to prey on each other. Humans are social animals who generally interact in a cooperative way. There is little evidence of predatory criminality in primitive societies; if such behavior was only constrained by superior force one would think that it would be rampant in such societies. Sociological and anthropological studies indicate the reverse, however.
Originally posted by gaychessplayer I'll serve Him, if that's what He demands to keep me out of Hell.
Shouldn't you serve Him out of love and gratitude and not fear? Your reasons for serving Him seam cynical. Don’t you think that an omnipotent being would know whether someone is being sincere or not? If you "believe" because it's the safe path, then you don't really believe at all and God will know the difference.
Originally posted by SwissGambit If you were debating a 10-year-old, I'd put money on the 10-year old.
I won many trophies as a debator in college, so I'm not sure that would be a smart bet on your part. (Of course, none of my opponent's were 10-years-old. 🙂)
Originally posted by rickgarel Shouldn't you serve Him out of love and gratitude and not fear? Your reasons for serving Him seam cynical. Don’t you think that an omnipotent being would know whether someone is being sincere or not? If you "believe" because it's the safe path, then you don't really believe at all and God will know the difference.
Yes, I should serve Him out of love and gratitude, but I don't know how to bring myself to that state. A professor at a Christian university once said that God doesn't send people to Hell because they don't love Him, but rather He sends people to Hell because they don't let God love them.
Originally posted by no1marauder [b]It's rather depressing to still see the absurd claim that without some magical super being dictating a set of rules to humans there is no such thing as objective morality. Of course, there are many systems of thought that posit an objective morality without a God. The Laws of Karma are an example; these are self-regulating laws of nature. There are many more.
But the laws of Karma reflect somewhat what scripture points out as well. For example, Karma teaches that we are repsonsible for our actions and the effects of those actions. Conversly, the Bible teaches that whatever a man sows that will he also reap. Both indicate an ability to choose ones destiny via are own free will.
Must God be included in such an equation? Not necessarily, however, for me it is like asking about the laws of gravity. They work for those who may believe that God set up such laws as well as for those who do not believe in his existence. If one obeys certain Godly principles/laws then they may reap the rewards for doing so, however, that does not mean they believe in the power behind such principles/laws.
Originally posted by no1marauder I also take issue with ATY's view that without police or other forces, the normal state of humans is to prey on each other. Humans are social animals who generally interact in a cooperative way. There is little evidence of predatory criminality in primitive societies; if such behavior was only constrained by superior force one would think that it wo ...[text shortened]... pant in such societies. Sociological and anthropological studies indicate the reverse, however.[/b]
So without the existence of police and other forces society would get along just fine? It then begs the question as to why the police and other forces exist in the first place, does it not? Perhaps they exist as a means for preying on the rest of society in some form or fashion then? But how can this be if it is not human nature to prey upon each other in the first place?
Originally posted by gaychessplayer Yes, I should serve Him out of love and gratitude, but I don't know how to bring myself to that state. A professor at a Christian university once said that God doesn't send people to Hell because they don't love Him, but rather He sends people to Hell because they don't let God love them.
I once suffered from this type of twisted thinking. I once thought that God went around waiting for me to get out of line so he could thump me over the head with a sledge hammer. Then one day I had a revelation. God is on my side.
Do you know what the term devil means? It means accuser. Biblically we are given the picture of the devil going around looking for those who are sinning and demanding that they get what they deserve. In effect, the devil is the one with the sledge hammer, not the other way around. God's response was to send us his Son to die for us. That does'nt sound like someone that wishes to punish us for our sins does it?
Every time I read the teachings of Christ and his love message I fall in love with him all over again. I think the only way to not fall in love with him is view some or all of his teachings as being distasteful. So what's not to love?
Originally posted by whodey So without the existence of police and other forces society would get along just fine? It then begs the question as to why the police and other forces exist in the first place, does it not? Perhaps they exist as a means for preying on the rest of society in some form or fashion then? But how can this be if it is not human nature to prey upon each other in the first place?
Amazingly enough, societies functioned and have functioned, for tens of thousands of years without police forces. "Human nature" is not an explanation for recent inventions of certain societies and it is sloppy thinking to believe such a thing.
Originally posted by whodey But the laws of Karma reflect somewhat what scripture points out as well. For example, Karma teaches that we are repsonsible for our actions and the effects of those actions. Conversly, the Bible teaches that whatever a man sows that will he also reap. Both indicate an ability to choose ones destiny via are own free will.
Must God be included in such ...[text shortened]... for doing so, however, that does not mean they believe in the power behind such principles/laws.
Apparently you forgot what you claimed earlier in this thread:
whodey: On the other hand, if there is no God then we will be the final authority in terms of right and wrong so long as we have or maintain the authority to not be held accountable for our actions.
This statement is simply inconsistent with the existence of objective morality such as that in the Laws of Karma. One doesn't have to believe in a Super Duper God to believe in an objective morality that exists outside of the individual opinions of human beings.
EDIT: I'll give another site that I'm sure you won't bother to read: http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/karma.htm
This quote in particular is relevant: Like all other natural laws they demand no lawgiver.
22 Sep '07 04:26
Afraid to Die?
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