An honest question for Christians

Originally posted by sonship
I don't think you and I have ever had a good conversation.
Originally posted by sonship
I feel you are trying to take away some Christians' enjoyment of Christ.

Amazing. Despite never having had a conversation with him, you manage to shine a spotlight on his 'raison d'etre'. Very good.

(And no, I'm not being sarcastic here.)

Originally posted by Rajk999
Clearly you do not know what the Grace of Christ or saved by Grace, means. Your religion has totally messed up that concept. But thats another topic.

Spoken like a true non-Christian.

You won't be the first to come in here and try to tell us what our religion is all about.

I don't even need to bring up the obvious and state that this concept only gains traction among non-Christians.

Originally posted by sonship
Yes, my answer stacks up with chapter 10 of Luke.

I don't think this is such an easy chapter as you say. One thing I think is probably frequently misunderstood about the parable of the Good Samaritan. I think the Good Samaritan represents Jesus Christ and the beaten and wounded man represents the sinner saved by Christ.

Furthermore in the next sec v.42)

I feel you are trying to take away some Christians' enjoyment of Christ.[/b]

Your claim to stack up to the teachings of Christ is delusion of the highest order.

Christ in Luke 10 spoke of LOVE .. two kinds .. which gives salvation.

1. Love for God / Christ
2. Love for your fellow man

Now you ignored that in your analysis of what gives salvation and instead claims that YOUR PASSAGE from Romans claimed the same exact hypocritical 'mouth worship' ie accept Christ with your mouth .. which Christ condemned.

You and your types are not of Christ.

Your claim to stack up to the teachings of Christ is delusion of the highest order.

You have not demonstrated that here much. You assert it with conviction. That's all.

Now, my take on the parable Good Samaritan is atypical. But the New Testament fortunately repeats again and again truths of the Gospel. So while one might question in my treatment of the parable of Luke 10 I think the same truth appears uncontestedly elsewhere in many places.

Christ in Luke 10 spoke of LOVE .. two kinds .. which gives salvation.

1. Love for God / Christ
2. Love for your fellow man

I have no problem with this.

But I do suspect a valid interpretation of the parable is that Jesus is the Good Samaritan. Right here is important -

"And on the next day he [the good Samaritan] took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper and said, take care of him; and whatever you spend in addition to this, when I return, I will repay you." (v.35)

You see this could well be the Lord Jesus saving the wounded sinner and bringing him to the new testament church - "the inn". There he entrusts the care of the forgiven sinner to "the inn keeper" , ie. a fellow Christian taking care of the Lord's church while He ascends to heaven for these many years.

He initially equips the inn keeper and promises to reward him when he comes again concerning anything he might have expended -

"Take care of him; and whatever you spend in addition to this, when I return, I will repay you." (v.35)

This is not paying the Christian for saving the sinner at His second coming.
But this is Christ rewarding the serving Christian for taking care of the fellow believer in the Christian church until Jesus returns at the end of the age.

Yes, love would be indicated very much. I agree. In this case the Savior's love for the wounded sinner primarily. Then secondarily the love of the inn keeper as a previously saved Christian, taking care of the new rescued believer in the "inn" of the Christian church, paying the price to care for him until the Lord returns.

It matches very well with the facts of the normal Christian life.

Now you ignored that in your analysis of what gives salvation and instead claims that YOUR PASSAGE from Romans claimed the same exact hypocritical 'mouth worship' ie accept Christ with your mouth .. which Christ condemned.

The passage from Romans 10 is the very clear apostolic instructions on how to be saved. When people are unsure, this is one of the best passages I know to go to help them see how they can be saved.

"That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, YOU WILL BE SAVED.

For with the heart there is believing unto righteousness, and with the mouth there is confession unto salvation."

Your complaint about "mouth worship" is stupid. It is a stupid objection.

Obviously Romans 10:9,10 are just two clear verses among hundreds of other passages in the same book about worship of God.
This passage is about entering into the salvation.

In your twisted accusation you erect a caricature that I intend Romans 10:9,10 to be the ONLY word on worshipping God. That's stupid of you.

In fact a few lines latter Paul writes this -

"For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all and rich to all who call upon Him. For whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (vs. 12,13)

There is absolutely no reason to restrict verses 12 and 13 to only the initial being "saved" of verse 9. The repentant who calls "Lord Jesus" today and believes in his heart that God has raised Him is assured that he will be saved. Yet the Lord continues to be "rich" every other day when he calls upon the name of Jesus.

The day after he is saved forever, he may need to be saved from his temper or saved from his lust or saved from arguing with his spouse or saved from anxiety about something in his daily life. The Lord is rich to all who call upon Him. So calling again "Lord Jesus, Lord Jesus" is wonderful worship which is effective to bring him into contact with the Lord Jesus within him.

He is rich to all who call upon Him initially for salvation.
He is rich to all who continue to call on His name for daily empowering, daily rescue, daily grace in the humdrum Christian life.

In fact whoever calls upon the name of the Lord will not be put to shame. So the more we confess and call upon Christ - "O Lord Jesus. Lord Jesus I need you right now. O Lord Jesus. Lord Jesus! the more we will experience the riches of His divine life.

So what is wrong with "mouth worship" anyway ?
I can call "Lord Jesus" while I exercise generosity.
I can call "Lord Jesus. O Lord Jesus" while I seek strength to give alms.
I can call "Lord Jesus. You are Lord." while I love or forgive people.
I can call "Lord Jesus" while I am involved in some physical service to God.

You must make some stupid assumption that to call with the MOUTH is to have the rest of one's being not functional. The more one calls "O Lord Jesus" in spirit and in truth the richer the indwelling Christ will be to them.

This is why Paul wrote his Corinthian letter to ALL THOSE WHO CALL UPON THE NAME OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST -

"Paul, a called apostle of Christ Jesus ... to the church of God which is in Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus ... with all those who call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ in every place ... " (See 1 Cor. 1:1,2)

You and your types are not of Christ.

I didn't say I was. But if you call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, it is very likely that you will touch the living Christ. So call "Lord Jesus" to be saved. And continue to call "Lord Jesus" to enjoy His riches.

He is rich to all who call upon him.
( I often know what your arguments are before you write them)
Probably next you will argue with me about Matthew 7:21.
Go ahead. Let's get it over with.

Originally posted by sonship

Your claim to stack up to the teachings of Christ is delusion of the highest order.

You have not demonstrated that here much. You assert it with conviction. That's all.

Now, my take on the parable Good Samaritan is atypical. But the New Testament fortunately repeats again and again truths of the Gospel. So while one might questio ...[text shortened]... 21.
Go ahead. Let's get it over with.[/b]

Christ preached love and you and modern day Christians preach another doctrine. So let that be the end of of it.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Christ preached love and you and modern day Christians preach another doctrine. So let that be the end of of it.

Christ preached love and you and modern day Christians preach another doctrine. So let that be the end of of it.

Ah. Love suffers long.
Believes all things, hopes all things. Love never fails.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Christ preached love and you and modern day Christians preach another doctrine. So let that be the end of of it.

Is it what we preach, or what you hear?

I suspect the latter.

It wouldn't be the first time.

We can't be held responsible for what you hear through your filter of hate.

But you hear it because you want to hear it. Fine. Enjoy.

Originally posted by sonship

You and your types are not of Christ.

I didn't say I was. But if you call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, it is very likely that you will touch the living Christ. So call [b]"Lord Jesus" to be saved. And continue to call "Lord Jesus" to enjoy His riches.

He is rich to all who call upon him.
( I often know what y ...[text shortened]... xt you will argue with me about Matthew 7:21.
Go ahead. Let's get it over with.[/b]

Now that's funny, because Matthew 7:21 is what I was thinking as I read this.

But I'm not going to argue about it. 🙂

Originally posted by Suzianne
Now that's funny, because Matthew 7:21 is what I was thinking as I read this.

But I'm not going to argue about it. 🙂

Oh, sister we do not need to argue per se. We can fellowship around it.

It is usually the concern of those who want to compare it with the Romans 10 verse. Actually, it is a valid point to examine the difference.

By the way, you let me off too easy on the Annhilation matter. LOL.

Originally posted by sonship
Oh, sister we do not need to argue per se. We can fellowship around it.

It is usually the concern of those who want to compare it with the Romans 10 verse. Actually, it is a valid point to examine the difference.

By the way, you let me off too easy on the Annhilation matter. LOL.

I agree, one verse sort of cries out to be compared to the other. But they do work hand in hand to create yet another message.

I think on that annihilationism discussion we had, I just got tired of arguing, hehe.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Now that's funny, because Matthew 7:21 is what I was thinking as I read this.

But I'm not going to argue about it. 🙂

Let us not forget the rest of it.

Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

(Matthew 7:22-23 NKJV)

Isn't practicing abortion, lawlessness in the sight of God?

Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”

He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

(Matthew 13:36-43 NKJV)

For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

(2 Peter 2:18-22 NKJV

The instructor

Originally posted by Suzianne
I agree, one verse sort of cries out to be compared to the other. But they do work hand in hand to create yet another message.

I think on that annihilationism discussion we had, I just got tired of arguing, hehe.

I think on that annihilationism discussion we had, I just got tired of arguing, hehe.

Amen.
The Lord be with your spirit.