An honest question for Christians

Originally posted by sonship

yes, i take issue that the god of love thinks us to be worthless abomination.

You take issue with God of love who is also righteous and holy ?
You think He should throw away His absolute righteousness and love Satan as Barney the Dinosaur would sing that we are all one happy family?

I take issue with you. If He had thought us wo ntimental hippy free love from the love with righteousness in the Gospel.

wall of text. tl:dr.

you can't expect anyone to read that on a debate forum. this isn't a senate speech. you must keep your ideas short and few. so i or anyone else could get a chance to respond to your post, and not fill the forums with 50 posts addressing everything you just said.

"You think He should throw away His absolute righteousness and love Satan"
most likely satan doesn't exist. if he does, and shows remorse, why shouldn't god love him too?

"If He had thought us worthless He would not have come to die "
so exactly what i just said. he did sent jesus here and he is a god of love. therefore he doesn't think us worthless. those weren't my words they were kelly jays


the rest, as i said, is to be answered by someone who had the patience to read the wall.

EDIT: i answered 2 ideas of yours and still my post got a bit too long.

Originally posted by KellyJay
God made a way for all to be saved, you are the one that wants to parse
that some should be saved and others rejected. I'll take God's methods over
yours, thank you very much!
Kelly

where did i mention that i want some to be saved and some rejected? was it maybe when i said that i think righteous atheist should go to heaven? was it when i said i don't believe in hell, and certainly not the eternal suffering thing? enlighten me, how did my points come off as me wanting some to be rejected?


oh i guess it was when i said that a child rapist and murderer is still a child rapist and murderer even if he repents. and that to allow him to go to heaven while sending the muslim or atheist doctor to roast for all eternity was the lest christian thing i heard in forever.

yes, i allow repentance. i believe in it. but that doesn't mean all who repent the most heinous crimes should get the express lane to heaven, passing all those righteous atheists, muslims, hindu, mormon, wiccans, scientologists(hope there are righteous scientologists).

The question on the OP of this thread is very tough.

wall of text. tl:dr.

I realize that my posts are often long.

But some questions are deep and profound and if you really WANT anything approaching an adequate response you should be willing to read something a little involved.

If you ask a simple little diddy- sure, 25 words may do it. I cannot do justice to a difficult question with such few words.

you can't expect anyone to read that on a debate forum.

This depends on the hunger of the reader.

Some people just like to ask hard questions.
If you respond to such a question inadequately they or someone else will only respond this way:

"But you forgot this issue.
But you overlooked that issue.
But you didn't consider this angle.
But you are ignoring that angle.
How poor your answer was therefore."

It really depends on the hunger to understand from people reading.

this isn't a senate speech.

In some cases this is more important than a senate speech.

you must keep your ideas short and few.

This could reflect laziness on your part.

If a question is sufficiently difficult to answer, a somewhat more involved response is in order.

I figure if you get quickly tired of reading then maybe you really didn't want an answer. Perhaps you just wanted to ask a hard question.

If others can handle such difficult questions in only a few words then that is good. I cannot always do that.

so i or anyone else could get a chance to respond to your post, and not fill the forums with 50 posts addressing everything you just said.

"You think He should throw away His absolute righteousness and love Satan"
most likely satan doesn't exist. if he does, and shows remorse, why shouldn't god love him too?

"If He had thought us worthless He would not have come to die "
so exactly what i just said. he did sent jesus here and he is a god of love. therefore he doesn't think us worthless. those weren't my words they were kelly jays


the rest, as i said, is to be answered by someone who had the patience to read the wall.

EDIT: i answered 2 ideas of yours and still my post got a bit too long.

I have participated in forums which FORCE posts to be of a certain length. It is an interesting environment. And I do admit I can be verbose.

But if I do not cover a few angles you will only come back and point out this or that or the other matter which you THINK I have not considered.

Hope you do better with others if you get weary reading me.
As long as you get a good response I am happy.
But if 25 words or less does not give you a good response then be willing to read some more from somewhere.

most likely satan doesn't exist. if he does, and shows remorse, why shouldn't god love him too?

Short little reply to you this time.

I think Satan was given his chance to repent and it has long, long since passed. He will never repent.

Originally posted by sonship

most likely satan doesn't exist. if he does, and shows remorse, why shouldn't god love him too?

Short little reply to you this time.

I think Satan was given his chance to repent and it has long, long since passed. He will never repent.

why? why would he not see the errors of his ways ever? why are you sure?

I want to thank all of you who have taken the time to try to answer my honest question. It seems that if one does good works and has not been exposed to Jesus Christ, they can receive salvation. However, if they have been exposed to Jesus Christ and have not accepted Him (me) you are damned despite the sort of life you have led.

"Our works, our good deeds, have absolutely no affect upon our salvation. Our good works do not get us salvation, nor do they help us keep our salvation. This is because our good works are filthy rags before God (Is. 64:6). Besides, if we could be saved by works, then righteousness would have been based on the law and Christ would not have needed to die."

I truly do not mean to be disrespectful to anyone's beliefs; however, it seems to me that the above quote represents a god who is full of human ego. It appears to be a god created by man in the image of man.

I was raised Jewish. In Judaism there is never any threatening talk of heaven and hell. The focus is always on understanding the Torah and figuring out what God wants us to do. I believe it was Hillel who was asked to sum up Judaism in one short sentence. His reply, "Do not do unto others what you would not want done unto yourself." It is a reverse of the Golden Rule. However, once you begin to think about it, it makes a big difference in the way one might behave. In Judaism, education and questioning are essential in creating a path where one can help others. The focus is upon respecting God mainly by living a loving and compassionate life.

why? why would he not see the errors of his ways ever? why are you sure?

I think the short answer is -
It does not make sense. So do not try to make sense out of the senseless.

Originally posted by sonship
The question on the OP of this thread is very tough.
.

The basic question on the opening post was asked by many and Christ answered in short and simple statements that even a 5 year old could easily understand.

The fact that you Jaywill and many others here cannot simply repeat what Christ said about eternal life means that you people have substantially changed the Gospel of Christ and made it into the doctrine of men. Now that is a very grave offense.

Originally posted by Phranny
I want to thank all of you who have taken the time to try to answer my honest question. It seems that if one does good works and has not been exposed to Jesus Christ, they can receive salvation. However, if they have been exposed to Jesus Christ and have not accepted Him (me) you are damned despite the sort of life you have led.

"Our works, our good d ...[text shortened]... others. The focus is upon respecting God mainly by living a loving and compassionate life.

If you are really interested in what Christ said about eternal life in his Kingdom to come, then I suggest that you read any one of the 4 gospels and dont put your faith in the interpretation of fallible men. The answer is there in plain simple english.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
where did i mention that i want some to be saved and some rejected? was it maybe when i said that i think righteous atheist should go to heaven? was it when i said i don't believe in hell, and certainly not the eternal suffering thing? enlighten me, how did my points come off as me wanting some to be rejected?


oh i guess it was when i said that a child ...[text shortened]... s, muslims, hindu, mormon, wiccans, scientologists(hope there are righteous scientologists).

You dislike that one is saved and another not, that is your complaint. The
reasons you have been using have to do with one is a better person than
another, thus you have a scale where you believe one is more worthy than
another.

Eternal suffering, well you may not like it as there are a lot of things both
us do not like, and our likes do not change the reality of them just because
of how we feel.

I've been telling you that Jesus' grace and mercy gives us our righteousness
it isn't our works. The Grace of God is like a key to enter into God's
Kingdom and from there we will work the works we are given, but it is God's
grace not our works that causes us to be saved least any of us can boast we
earned our way in.
Kelly

Originally posted by sonship

Oh, so this is how it's going to be. I will make points and you will just spout unrelated religious cliches that are unrelated to what I said. You remind me of someone...

I don't think what I wrote was either clichés or unrelated.

...hi jaywill.

Hi SwissGambit.

Explain why my post as unrelated.

For one, it answered a question with a question. Also, gambling is not necessarily deceptive nor must it involve cheating (of course that is a huge concern in gambling, but some people do play honestly...).

And the last two paragraphs were nothing but religious platitudes. I felt like I was watching someone at the pulpit. Nothing against great preachers, but in here dialogue is preferable to monologue, hard as that adjustment may be. 🙂

Originally posted by KellyJay
.. I've been telling you that Jesus' grace and mercy gives us our righteousness it isn't our works. ..

Both righteousness and evil have been around a long time, even before Christ arrived. How do you explain the righteousness and obedience and good works of the patriarchs many of whom never knew that Christ would come.

Your entire religious philosophy is not based on the Bible but instead on the deluded interpretation of the 'once saved always saved' sect.

Originally posted by Phranny
However, if they have been exposed to Jesus Christ and have not accepted Him (me) you are damned despite the sort of life you have led.

This thread was always about you rationalising your rejection of Christ wasn't it. It's fine, it was the only reason I bothered to respond to be honest.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Both righteousness and evil have been around a long time, even before Christ arrived. How do you explain the righteousness and obedience and good works of the patriarchs many of whom never knew that Christ would come.

Your entire religious philosophy is not based on the Bible but instead on the deluded interpretation of the 'once saved always saved' sect.

If you don't know the answer to those questions it becomes clear why you
are still trying to earn your own righteousness instead of accepting the free
gift God gives us through Jesus Christ.
Kelly

Originally posted by Rajk999
Both righteousness and evil have been around a long time, even before Christ arrived. How do you explain the righteousness and obedience and good works of the patriarchs many of whom never knew that Christ would come.

Your entire religious philosophy is not based on the Bible but instead on the deluded interpretation of the 'once saved always saved' sect.

To answer your questions, it is best to read the Holy Bible with a good believers commentary to help explain it all to you.

The Instructor