An infinite past.

This is what epi posted
In a past-infinite universe the present moment would never arrive since an infinite amount of time would have to elapse for it to do so

An infinite amount of time from when?
A starting point is implicit in the statement surely?
Between which 2 points is your "infinite amount of time"??

Originally posted by sonship
The problem of a specific starting point is not epi's problem. That is the problem of the theorist who puts forth the concept that the universe existed infinitely.

If the past is infinite then it has no starting point!
If you do not understand that concept then there can be no debate.

Now someone might say that while an infinite collection cannot be formed by beginning at a point and adding members, nevertheless an infinite collection could be formed by never beginning but ending at a point, that is to say, ending at a point after having added one member after another from eternity. But this method seems even more unbelievable than the first method. If one cannot count to infinity, how can one count down from infinity? If one cannot traverse the infinite by moving in one direction, how can one traverse it by simply moving in the opposite direction?

Indeed, the idea of a beginningness series ending in the present seems to be absurd. To give just one illustration: suppose we meet a man who claims to have been counting from eternity and is now finishing: . . ., -3, -2, -1, 0. We could ask, why did he not finish counting yesterday or the day before or the year before? By then an infinite time had already elapsed, so that he should already have finished by then. Thus, at no point in the infinite past could we ever find the man finishing his countdown, for by that point he should already be done! In fact, no matter how far back into the past we go, we can never find the man counting at all, for at any point we reach he will have already finished. But if at no point in the past do we find him counting, this contradicts the hypothesis that he has been counting from eternity. This illustrates the fact that the formation of an actual infinite by successive addition is equally impossible whether one proceeds to or from infinity.


Read more: http://www.reasonablefaith.org/the-existence-of-god-and-the-beginning-of-the-universe#ixzz2Q7T8tp7D

btw: I am not proposing the past is infinite, just saying that it cannot be resolved either way.

Originally posted by sonship
[b
But I think it is unfair for you to fault the objection that was faulted - namely the problem of traversing an infinite amount of time to arrive at this moment.

This is like counting down from infinity to 1. It is impossible.
[/b]

Originally posted by sonship

If the past is infinite then there is no starting point.
But this moment is here.
This moment arrived over the passage of infinity. How?

.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
The same way an infinite line is made up of points.
I really do not see a problem here.

Consider the line x=0 in Cartesian coordinates.
Values for y extend infinitely in the negative and positive.

Your argument says that to go from y= -inf to y=0 is an infinite distance.
An infinite distance cannot be traversed.
Therefore y=0 cannot exist.

Its bonkers.

Originally posted by sonship
I think the problem comes in when you go from the theoritical to the actual.

Originally posted by sonship
But what about when it comes to actual existing things in the world, like discrete moments in time?

Originally posted by sonship
But don't you think that if the past is infinite the entire universe would have run down to ice coldness and darkness by now ?

Why not so long long ago?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
What is theoretical about my argument?
What part of my previous post is not fact?

Originally posted by sonship
Actual counting to or down from infinity is an impossible handling of these facts.

Originally posted by vistesd
The analogous argument would then be that, if the real number line is infinite, then an infinite sequence of numbers would have to be “traversed” (in this case from either direction) to “arrive at” r=0; therefore the real number line must be finite (in at least one direction)—or else r=0, and by extension, any other arbitrarily selected point on the number line, is impossible.

Originally posted by sonship
Actual counting to or down from infinity is an impossible handling of these facts.

Number has no number.

Counting down from a starting point of infinity is impossible