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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. 08 Mar '05 09:10
    I created this thread especially for those secular proselytisers who want to air their disgust, disdain, scorn, repulsion, etc. towards the Christian faith.

    Have a good time.
  2. 08 Mar '05 09:34
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    I created this thread especially for those secular proselytisers who want to air their disgust, disdain, scorn, repulsion, etc. towards the Christian faith.

    Have a good time.
    Well i was brought up christian so i think i have the right to criticize it if i want.
    Theres a lot of things that i think are wrong with it.

    Catholic priests not being allowed to marry. Hell, no female catholic priests. Where did Jesus say it was a mens only club?
    How are these men supposed to lead a normal life, how are they supposed to give marrige councelling/advice when they are missing out on a major part of human life.

    I also think that the current destruction of the environment and consumption of the worlds natural resources is not viewed as the impending disaster it is by a lot of people mainly because people have faith that GOD will sort it all our for us.. Very dangerous thinking.
  3. Standard member Redmike
    Godless Commie
    08 Mar '05 10:56
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    I created this thread especially for those secular proselytisers who want to air their disgust, disdain, scorn, repulsion, etc. towards the Christian faith.

    Have a good time.
    Its not specifically anti-christian, but a good one all the same:
    "Those who toil and live in want all their lives are taught by religion to be submissive and patient while here on earth, and to take comfort in the hope of a heavenly reward. But those who live by the labour of others are taught by religion to practise charity while on earth, thus offering them a very cheap way of justifying their entire existence as exploiters and selling them at a moderate price tickets to well-being in heaven." VI Lenin
  4. Standard member Joe Fist
    Troubador
    08 Mar '05 15:23
    Originally posted by Redmike
    Its not specifically anti-christian, but a good one all the same:
    "Those who toil and live in want all their lives are taught by religion to be submissive and patient while here on earth, and to take comfort in the hope of a heavenly reward. But those who live by the labour of others are taught by religion to practise charity while on earth, thus offering ...[text shortened]... e as exploiters and selling them at a moderate price tickets to well-being in heaven." VI Lenin
    I put this is Spirituality Quotes because this didn't exist but I think it's more appropriate here:

    The world makes sense only when you force it to.

    Frank Miller
  5. Standard member Darfius
    The Apologist
    08 Mar '05 15:46
    Originally posted by dk3nny
    Well i was brought up christian so i think i have the right to criticize it if i want.
    Theres a lot of things that i think are wrong with it.

    Catholic priests not being allowed to marry. Hell, no female catholic priests. Where did Jesus say it was a mens only club?
    How are these men supposed to lead a normal life, how are they supposed to give marrige c ...[text shortened]... inly because people have faith that GOD will sort it all our for us.. Very dangerous thinking.
    Just to clarify, the Catholic Church isn't Christian. There are Christians within it, but as a body, it's corrupt.

    Oh, and when they tell you they've been around for 2000 years, that's a complete and bold lie. Peter did NOT sponsor that corrupt church.
  6. Standard member DoctorScribbles
    BWA Soldier
    08 Mar '05 15:48
    Originally posted by Darfius
    Just to clarify, the Catholic Church isn't Christian. There are Christians within it, but as a body, it's corrupt.

    Oh, and when they tell you they've been around for 2000 years, that's a complete and bold lie. Peter did NOT sponsor that corrupt church.
    Thanks for the clarification.
  7. 08 Mar '05 15:56
    Originally posted by Darfius
    Just to clarify, the Catholic Church isn't Christian. There are Christians within it, but as a body, it's corrupt.

    Oh, and when they tell you they've been around for 2000 years, that's a complete and bold lie. Peter did NOT sponsor that corrupt church.

    No more eggnog for you, bud ......
  8. Standard member Darfius
    The Apologist
    08 Mar '05 15:57
    Originally posted by ivanhoe

    No more eggnog for you, bud ......
    You would be one of those "Christians within the church", ivan.

    I apologize if I offended you, but I will not support a church that values its traditions over the Word of God and says so proudly. Do you see no problem with the rampant Mary worship and celibacy despite the explicit orders of God in Genesis?
  9. Standard member DoctorScribbles
    BWA Soldier
    08 Mar '05 16:14
    "Take a look at what you dare to call a moral code: Your code begins by damning man as evil, then demands that he practice a good, which is defined as what is impossible for him to practice. It demands that he accept his own depravity without proof. It demands that he start with a standard of evil, which is himself. The name of this monstrous absurdity is "original sin".

    However, if man is evil by birth then he has no will, no power to change it. If he has not will, then he can be neither good nor evil. To hold man’s nature as his sin is a mockery of justice. To hold him guilty in a matter where no innocence can possibly exist is a mockery of reason.

    To destroy nature, morality, justice and reason by means of a single concept is a feat of evil hardly to be matched. " --- Who is this man?
  10. 08 Mar '05 16:27
    Originally posted by Darfius
    You would be one of those "Christians within the church", ivan.

    I apologize if I offended you, but I will not support a church that values its traditions over the Word of God and says so proudly. Do you see no problem with the rampant Mary worship and celibacy despite the explicit orders of God in Genesis?

    Let's just say there are usually a lot of problems in a one-billion people community.
  11. Standard member Hand of Hecate
    Merciless Vagabond
    08 Mar '05 16:44
    Originally posted by Darfius
    You would be one of those "Christians within the church", ivan.

    I apologize if I offended you, but I will not support a church that values its traditions over the Word of God and says so proudly. Do you see no problem with the rampant Mary worship and celibacy despite the explicit orders of God in Genesis?
    Darfius,

    I'm not a Catholic myself and I struggle with my own spiritual identity daily. However, my wife is Catholic, as is her family and I must tell you that they are among some of the most faithful God fearing people you could possibly meet. My wife's father in particular has led an extraordinarly good and admirable life. His faith and unwaivering belief in God guides his decisions in life. He's served his country, raised his family and run his business in an admirable fashion.

    I don't expect to ever meet a better man. I find it unfortunate that you would sweepingly condemn such a man simply because he is Catholic.
  12. 08 Mar '05 16:48 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Darfius
    You would be one of those "Christians within the church", ivan.

    I apologize if I offended you, but I will not support a church that values its traditions over the Word of God and says so proudly. Do you see no problem with the rampant ...[text shortened]... orship and celibacy despite the explicit orders of God in Genesis?
    I do not think it is its tradition that the Roman Catholic Church sees itself as upholding: it is the ecclesial (“apostolic&rdquo tradition, by which and out of which the Bible canon originated and was/is interpreted. For example, you yourself have used the phrase “God-Man” to refer to Jesus as the Christ, and have talked about the human and divine natures—this was “fleshed out” at the Council of Chalcedon in 451 because of controversies about how such Biblical phrases as “Son of God” and “Son of Man” were interpreted and understood. The viewpoint is not, I think, that the Bible is valued less than the tradition, but that the tradition provides the necessary “ground” in which to interpret the Biblical message.

    This tradition goes back long before the Great Schism of 1054, when the Western (Roman) and Eastern churches separated. The Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholic churches disagree, of course, about which one is upholding/continuing that tradition correctly, including in the area of scriptural hermeneutics.

    “Sola scriptura” (scripture alone) was one of Luther’s several “solas,” that came out of the Reformation. Thus Biblical hermeneutics was (for good or ill) freed up from the tradition—directly from Roman Catholic tradition, but by extension from the entire apostolic tradition (whether Luther intended this extended breach, I think, is still a subject of debate).
  13. Standard member telerion
    True X X Xian
    08 Mar '05 17:20
    Originally posted by Darfius
    You would be one of those "Christians within the church", ivan.

    I apologize if I offended you, but I will not support a church that values its traditions over the Word of God and says so proudly. Do you see no problem with the rampant Mary worship and celibacy despite the explicit orders of God in Genesis?
    Uh oh, do I see a "schism" coming on?

    Can the HTT Alliance keep it together? Will they be torn apart by the finer points of their common mythology?
  14. Standard member telerion
    True X X Xian
    08 Mar '05 17:22
    Originally posted by Darfius
    Just to clarify, the Catholic Church isn't Christian. There are Christians within it, but as a body, it's corrupt.

    Oh, and when they tell you they've been around for 2000 years, that's a complete and bold lie. Peter did NOT sponsor that corrupt church.
    Hey Dar, you're about 488 years too late. Martin Luther already cleared it up. Thanks though.
  15. Standard member Darfius
    The Apologist
    08 Mar '05 18:05
    Originally posted by vistesd
    I do not think it is its tradition that the Roman Catholic Church sees itself as upholding: it is the ecclesial (“apostolic&rdquo tradition, by which and out of which the Bible canon originated and was/is interpreted. For example, you yourself have used the phrase “God-Man” to refer to Jesus as the Christ, and have talked about the human and divin ...[text shortened]... adition (whether Luther intended this extended breach, I think, is still a subject of debate).
    It wasn't apostlic tradition. Apostlic tradition is all in the Bible, and it says nothing about keeping priests celibate.

    Can you please show me where, in writing, Peter sponsored the Catholic Church?