Apology to Taoman

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Because that's what I'm getting here - that you are saying that Muhhumed was a violent prophet and hence Islam is a violent religion.

The Bhagavad Gita , one of the major religious books of Hinduism, is also set to a backdrop of war, where Arjuna constantly questions Krsna as to how he should feel about the taking of other human lives, where the Upa ...[text shortened]... several other setbacks that have set back the potential of true spiritualism to evolve. )

we are not talking of the Gita, of Hinduism, of Buddhism, of the price of cheese on the moon, and you have still filed to answer, why, if Islam is a religion of peace, Muhammed engaged in wars of conquest.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
we are not talking of the Gita, of Hinduism, of Buddhism, of the price of cheese on the moon, and you have still filed to answer, why, if Islam is a religion of peace, Muhammed engaged in wars of conquest.

I have offered a possible reason for why the prophet Muhhamed had to engage in wars.Please don't accuse me of not offering an explanation for why Muhhumed engaged in wars, when I clearly have.


I have tried to paint you a picture of the ancient world which was ruled by power and muscle. According to most histories I believe that describing the ancient world as violent and barbaric is apt.
I believe the Hindu society was ahead of it's time.

When it comes to Islam all I can say is that the mystical arm of Islam , known as Sufism , is an extremely intelligent, artful, wise and diligent form of Islam, which to my mind parallels Zen and Buddhism.
The whirling dervishes, the extremely simple yet insightful mathematical diagrams, the wise reflections on life and other similar intelligent takes on Islam certainly took me by surprise when I had first read them. Since then I will try to acquire any book on Sufism that I come across.

Just like Zen could not have been born out of a dull and controlling religion, it had to come from Buddhism, Sufism must have come from an extremely enlightened take on Islam. It is because of this aspect of Islam that I believe there to be more than meets the eye to this at times very forceful religion.

For a religion to be successful it must have at it's core a message of peace, and as I said none of these religions would've stood the test of time if they had not offered their followers something of pure spiritualism, borne of a truly "god-conscious" prophet , sometimes called Christ-consciousness , sometimes called Buddhahood, other times, direct fifth dimensional awareness or even just freedom from this mortal coil. Call it what you want, it matters not to our experience, just as calling "God" Jehovah or Krsna matters not as far as direct experience of the ineffeble is concerned.

I will admit that I do not know of the Koran as well as I would like, but I know a religion by it's fruits, not necessarily by it's holy books, and it's fruits are it's followers.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I have offered a possible reason for why the prophet Muhhamed had to engage in wars.Please don't accuse me of not offering an explanation for why Muhhumed engaged in wars, when I clearly have.


I have tried to paint you a picture of the ancient world which was ruled by power and muscle. According to most histories I believe that describing the anc ...[text shortened]... it's fruits, not necessarily by it's holy books, and it's fruits are it's followers.

here is what you have actually said that was relevant,

As far as Muhammed is concerned, I can only guess that his "wars of conquest", (which mirror the Christian crusades, as does a lot of other stuff in these two religions), was necessary because that was the best way to live his life in accordance with his divine revelations and ensure the survival of his religion

so you believe that muhammds wars of conquest were a divine revelation? even if that were true, it does not make Islam a religion of peace, in fact, it makes it quite the opposite, a religion of divinely sanctioned violence.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
here is what you have actually said that was relevant,

As far as Muhammed is concerned, I can only guess that his "wars of conquest", (which mirror the Christian crusades, as does a lot of other stuff in these two religions), was necessary because that was the best way to live his life in accordance with his divine revelations and ensure the surv ...[text shortened]... of peace, in fact, it makes it quite the opposite, a religion of divinely sanctioned violence.

Yes , I understand your mindset. I mean to be a JW you basically have to show why other religions and even other denominations of Christianity have gotten it wrong.
If they are Christian , they are on the right track but not yet alligned with the JW's principles, which are the only way to get the best ontological understanding of the world.
So there will be no evidence or words that I can say that will sway you - especially not to Islam. (not sway to be a muslim but just show you that your view of it is not in line with the majority of Islam).

My whole post was relevant. I mentioned the crusades which sound about the same as these so-called "wars of conquest" that that Muhhumed suposedly went on.
You'll have to forgive me if I don't just take your word on this.

I do believe that certain religions have had to fight in an ancient world to preserve their religions/philosophies. After all, as I've pointed out, the only non violent religions before Christ (and for hundreds of years after) were Hinduism and people's in touch with the land, such as the native Indians of North America and the Australian aboriginies.

I have also said that any religion that condones violence of any sort cannot possibly call itself "spiritual" in any way shape or form, as spirituality is borne of understanding the universal principles , which are never changing, which seek to reinstate the ego to it's proper place within one's psychological make-up.
All truly spiritual people have understood that you cannot force religion on people, hence they have waited for seekers to find them and ask their questions rather than they go door to door, preaching their sanctioned garbage as if that were the only valid truth in a universe that seems endless and most likely teaming with other life... But hey, until you can accept the differences between people here on Earth, you will not really be ready to accept a whole other Extra-Terrestrials' perspective on "God",etc.

Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
In a recent thread by me, "Death to all Muslims",

it was pointed out to me by the administration that this thread
could be viewed as racist and inflammatory.

I have read the reasoning by the administration and do agree with it.

So, therefore, I do apologize to Taoman and to others who may feel
that my personal opinions were over the top. ...[text shortened]... before
any other God.

Thank you.


Sorry for any offence which may have been taken up.

A Muslim can be from any race, just like with a Christian. Unlike a Jew, which may refer to both the religion and the race, that is not true of Islam and Christianity, which does not specify any particular race.

Any crticism against a particular religious belief could be considered inflammatory, and particularly to call for their death. However, extemists Muslims have been calling for the Death of Christians and Jews for a long time. They have even extended it to calling for the death of Americans.

This is the only reason that I make similar statements concerning Muslims. Not that I really want all of them to die, but because they are calling for my death. Everyone seems to want to ignore it, when they are actually murdering our people. So now, it has become politically incorrect to show any signs of anger against it. We must be tolerant. But how is it possible to defeat an enemy we don't acknowledge?

If they call for our death and kill us, the liberals say it is just becasue these poor people have been mistreated by the little Satan, Israel, and the big Satan, America. We on the other hand are accused of hate speech or Islamophobia. Go figure.


The Instructor

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I have no qualms about religious freedoms unless a religion is violent/promotes violence in any way.

I believe that at it's heart Islam is a peaceful religion.

Please don't get sucked into the propaganda machine, Robbie. At least the JW's promote strongly a non-violent message to deal with problems, which is one of your religions strongest points.
Dont side with the haters, Rob.

I posted this to you before and apparently you prefer not to know the truth.

Muslim Leader Admits Islam Not a Religion of Peace

YouTube&feature=fvwp&NR=1

http://beforeitsnews.com/religion/2013/05/muslim-leader-admits-islam-not-a-religion-of-peace-2452006.html

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
A Muslim can be from any race, just like with a Christian. Unlike a Jew, which may refer to both the religion and the race, that is not true of Islam and Christianity, which does not specify any particular race.

Any crticism against a particular religious belief could be considered inflammatory, and particularly to call for their death. However, extemis ...[text shortened]... e on the other hand are accused of hate speech or Islamophobia. Go figure.


The Instructor

The enemy is acknowledged and some ...
Perhaps 'defeat' is not what we need.
Pummel them into the ground,eh? Would that make you feel better?
All life is sacred and special.
Do you know what the U.S. did in Irag, Afghanistan,etc. to incite such hatred from SOME muslims? I'm not exactly sure myself, but I wouldn't for one minute believe what Fox tells you. It seems you have swallowed their propganda hook,line and sinker.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
The enemy is acknowledged and some ...
Perhaps 'defeat' is not what we need.
Pummel them into the ground,eh? Would that make you feel better?
All life is sacred and special.
Do you know what the U.S. did in Irag, Afghanistan,etc. to incite such hatred from SOME muslims? I'm not exactly sure myself, but I wouldn't for one minute believe what Fox tells you. It seems you have swallowed their propganda hook,line and sinker.

It is the Muslims that are the deceivers, not the Americans. If you wish you can keep your head in the sand and let them kick your ass, for all I care.

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
I posted this to you before and apparently you prefer not to know the truth.

Muslim Leader Admits Islam Not a Religion of Peace

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64V09tTIjR4&feature=fvwp&NR=1

http://beforeitsnews.com/religion/2013/05/muslim-leader-admits-islam-not-a-religion-of-peace-2452006.html

The Instructor

I haven't got credit for that, sorry. I'm sure some Muslim leaders take that stance. Unfortunately it is not representative of the whole of Islam.

I personally have never been in any discussions with and Muslim person, where they have sought to tell me that I should either convert to Islam or face some sort of consequences. If I had, then perhaps my views would be a bit different , after all I know what is true first and formostly from what I experience for myself, all other news reports and such don't register on my "truth-meter" before they have been cross-checked.

But hey, rather than trying to interpret the "truth" about others in the world perhaps we should turn our tv's off a bit more and actually live our lives, dealing with real problems as they arise.

Originally posted by RJHinds
It is the Muslims that are the deceivers, not the Americans. If you wish you can keep your head in the sand and let them kick your ass, for all I care.

The Instructor

I'm more pissed at the U.S. than any other country.

And yet, without it's religious freedoms and other laws it would not be in the position it is, which is the only real super-power in the world today. Rest of the world v the U.S. ?? I reckon the U.S. would kick but , no problems.
Now if you have that kind of power, why on Earth not use it to make the world better, rather than beef up 'defence'?

Originally posted by RJHinds
A Muslim can be from any race, just like with a Christian. Unlike a Jew, which may refer to both the religion and the race, that is not true of Islam and Christianity, which does not specify any particular race.

Any crticism against a particular religious belief could be considered inflammatory, and particularly to call for their death. However, extemis ...[text shortened]... e on the other hand are accused of hate speech or Islamophobia. Go figure.


The Instructor

"Unlike a Jew, which may refer to both the religion and the race..." Judaism is a religion, not a race. There are two ways in which you can become a Jew. If your mother is Jewish, you can claim to be Jewish. Or you can convert. However, a rabbi must lead your conversion AND he/she must attempt to dissuade you from conversation at least three times.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I haven't got credit for that, sorry. I'm sure some Muslim leaders take that stance. Unfortunately it is not representative of the whole of Islam.

I personally have never been in any discussions with and Muslim person, where they have sought to tell me that I should either convert to Islam or face some sort of consequences. If I had, then perhaps my 's off a bit more and actually live our lives, dealing with real problems as they arise.

This Muslim leader is one of the few that is being forthcoming. The majority of them in western nations are in the deception mode.

Do not be deceived: “Bad company corrupts good morals.”

(1 Corinthians 15:33 NASB)

The instructor

Originally posted by Phranny
"Unlike a Jew, which may refer to both the religion and the race..." Judaism is a religion, not a race. There are two ways in which you can become a Jew. If your mother is Jewish, you can claim to be Jewish. Or you can convert. However, a rabbi must lead your conversion AND he/she must attempt to dissuade you from conversation at least three times.

I am not talking about that. I was addressing the moderators accusation of racism by referring to Muslims. When one refers to a Muslim, he is not referring to the race. Whereas, if one refers to a Jew, he could be referring to his race or his religion. It is not the same with Christians and Muslims. That is all I was saying.

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
This Muslim leader is one of the few that is being forthcoming. The majority of them in western nations are in the deception mode.

Do not be deceived: “Bad company corrupts good morals.”

(1 Corinthians 15:33 NASB)

The instructor

The Muslim leaders in Australia that have appeared recently on t.v. were extremely forthcoming about their absolute denouncement and condemnation of the atrocities carried out in the name of Islam.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
The Muslim leaders in Australia that have appeared recently on t.v. were extremely forthcoming about their absolute denouncement and condemnation of the atrocities carried out in the name of Islam.

The Koran teaches that it is okay to lie and deceive, if it furthers the cause of Islam. So you can not believe those people, even if they are sincere in what they say. Islam is a Satanic religion of deception. The sooner you understand that, the better.

http://www.meforum.org/2095/islams-doctrines-of-deception

The Instructor