1. Standard memberSeitse
    Doug Stanhope
    That's Why I Drink
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    11 May '11 09:12
    The same way our Creator was not obligated to create this
    universe and to create us, we are, created to His image, also
    morally free to choose amongst different possible social
    arrangements, i.e. rules.

    To what extent can we choose, though, against His commands?

    Why do we create rules to restrict our own moral freedoms?
  2. Account suspended
    Joined
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    11 May '11 09:46
    Originally posted by Seitse
    The same way our Creator was not obligated to create this
    universe and to create us, we are, created to His image, also
    morally free to choose amongst different possible social
    arrangements, i.e. rules.

    To what extent can we choose, though, against His commands?

    Why do we create rules to restrict our own moral freedoms?
    me thinks because morality is relative to Gods revealed will, thus we are endowed with
    the faculty of conscience, which being formed in Gods image, i.e we have a sense of
    justice and know when its transgressed. This appears to me to mean that we have
    two points of reference, the conscience and the word of God and its the adherents goal
    to train his conscience to become more streamlined with Gods word, this will naturally
    have an effect on what is morally acceptable and what is not, for both act like umpires
    in rendering decisions. we of course must add to this secular laws which we are also
    obliged to keep as long as they do not transgress the word of God or the conscience.
    These are therefore also relative.
  3. Joined
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    7051
    11 May '11 21:40
    Originally posted by Seitse
    The same way our Creator was not obligated to create this
    universe and to create us, we are, created to His image, also
    morally free to choose amongst different possible social
    arrangements, i.e. rules.

    To what extent can we choose, though, against His commands?

    Why do we create rules to restrict our own moral freedoms?
    Do you have any particular part of Thomas' writing in mind? I am not entirely sure what his thoughts are on the relationship between law and morality. I do not think he would suggest that man has the freedom to alter natural moral laws, that is laws known by an act of right reason of the nature and telos of an act. This rests solely with God. Man, however, in imitation of God's moral authority can set up rules and laws, everything from taxes to road laws, for the welfare of society. These rules themselves are not intrinsically moral (driving on the left hand side of the road is not in itself immoral) but can take on a moral significance (driving on the left hand side of the road in America is against traffic law and therefore immoral.) That is just my speculation.
  4. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
    Brisbane,QLD
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    91666
    12 May '11 04:251 edit
    Originally posted by Seitse
    The same way our Creator was not obligated to create this
    universe and to create us, we are, created to His image, also
    morally free to choose amongst different possible social
    arrangements, i.e. rules.

    To what extent can we choose, though, against His commands?

    Why do we create rules to restrict our own moral freedoms?
    "He"gave us enough free will to work out our own predictaments, individually and collectively, (hopefully in that odrer too 🙂 ).
    To choose willy niily according to ones whims and egos desires makes for "mixed" results. (* these rsults may change depending on if the choice is repeated often or not.
    To allign your choice with this supposed "God" , ( which to me says "to allign your conciousness with ones mind on the best possible outcome for all sentient beings", or some such words more or less to that effect...)the meaning may be discussed if you wish,..Anyway, where was I? Ah yes : To allign your thinking with gods thinking is usually the best possible outcome in every case. Sometime the results are felt immediately , other times later, but rest assured if you have invested some true energy into some cool project
  5. Standard memberSeitse
    Doug Stanhope
    That's Why I Drink
    Joined
    01 Jan '06
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    33672
    12 May '11 06:33
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    Do you have any particular part of Thomas' writing in mind? I am not entirely sure what his thoughts are on the relationship between law and morality. I do not think he would suggest that man has the freedom to alter natural moral laws, that is laws known by an act of right reason of the nature and telos of an act. This rests solely with God. Man, however, ...[text shortened]... he road in America is against traffic law and therefore immoral.) That is just my speculation.
    Summa Theologiae I-II qq. 90-97

    Once you're done with it, jump to qq. 98-105, which is less known
    though very enlightening.
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