For anybody. I am not advocating violence or stupid behaviour, at all (as in, I can think of very few situations in which the first is justified and none in which the second is justified). However, I can think of experiences for which a peaceful reaction would be basically inhuman and experiences which are essentially meaningless.
Originally posted by royalchicken For anybody. I am not advocating violence or stupid behaviour, at all (as in, I can think of very few situations in which the first is justified and none in which the second is justified). However, I can think of experiences for which a peaceful reaction would be basically inhuman and experiences which are essentially meaningless.
Originally posted by dj2becker Have you been drinking again?😉
No. Do you have specific responses to my post (which was, after all, a response to yours), or are you just going to post knowing, smug smileys and patronising questions which do not even jibe with any faults my post might have?
Originally posted by dj2becker Since I do not believe in an afterlife, most meaning that my life will have will be during this life, however finite that may be. But if I had children, for example, my concern would not be solely with my own life. They would inherit the world I have helped to create. As our lives would be interconnected, I would hope the world would be a better place f t meaning would pain, sorrow and suffering entail in your life? How would you deal with this?
The use of children was just the most obvious example. I could insert family or friends in there just as easily. Atheists are perfectly capable of caring the wellbeing of the people who will survive them.
Are you claiming that someone who was paralyzed could have no positive impact on the world, or on those around him?
Why should I be required to love someone who wronged me?
I have no idea how I'd cope with the murder of a loved one. I don't think anyone does unless they've experienced it firsthand.
Why would pain, sorrow and suffering have any "meaning" in my life? How wold I deal with them? I don't know, but it won't involve Jesus, that much i can tell you.
Originally posted by royalchicken No. Do you have specific responses to my post (which was, after all, a response to yours), or are you just going to post knowing, smug smileys and patronising questions which do not even jibe with any faults my post might have?
C'mon man I can smell your breath at a distance...😛😀
I believe that I can have perfect peace and meaning in all circumstances.
Originally posted by dj2becker C'mon man I can smell your breath at a distance...😛😀
I believe that I can have perfect peace and meaning in all circumstances.
I just claimed that peace and meaning are not desirable or possible in all circumstances; ie I posited that there exist circumstances in which feelings of peace are illusory or inappropriate and that there exist circumstances for which any meaning found in them by an observer is actually only in the mind of the observer.
What is the source of your perfect peace and meaning?
Is accusing sober strangers of being drunk a typical action for a peaceful person who finds meaning in all circumstances?
Originally posted by royalchicken What is the source of your perfect peace and meaning?
Come on RC, I told you this already. It's his detachment from reality that allows such serenity. You normally see it in the eyes of junkies when they score, or mental patients just after pill time.
Originally posted by scottishinnz Come on RC, I told you this already. It's his detachment from reality that allows such serenity. You normally see it in the eyes of junkies when they score, or mental patients just after pill time.
Hang on, dj2 was offended by me posting while mildly drunk a while ago, and he thinks he can be taken seriously while under the effects of some rude cocktail of smack and Haldol? Hypocrisy!
Originally posted by dottewell You have yet to show why love and meaning require God.
It depends what kind of love you're talking about . If it's the kind of love that means you prefer to be killed than kill , or the kind of love that will eventually win out over all the powerful forces out there (self interest , self preservation , hatred etc ).Or a love that enables a person to forgive someone who has killed their child or changes someone from a self loathing alcoholic into a whole person...that kind of love...then yeah ...I kinda think you may need a God for that (lol). What kind of love do you mean?
Originally posted by knightmeister It depends what kind of love you're talking about . If it's the kind of love that means you prefer to be killed than kill , or the kind of love that will eventually win out over all the powerful forces out there (self interest , self preservation , hatred etc ).Or a love that enables a person to forgive someone who has killed their child or changes so ...[text shortened]... ..then yeah ...I kinda think you may need a God for that (lol). What kind of love do you mean?
You still haven't explained why god is required for that sort of love. You have expressed unfounded judgements and probable contradictions, however.
You implicitly denied part of the humanity of self-loathing alcoholics. What characteristics must an individual have to be a 'whole person'?
You claimed it is desirable to 'win out' over self-preservation. What must one do to accomplish this? Is one morally required to starve to death at the first opportunity?
You claim it is desirable to forgive those who kill their children. What actions toward this person indicate forgiveness?
Originally posted by rwingett Atheism does not equal nihilism, no matter how much you theists claim it does. You do not need a god to have a life full of love and meaning. The fact that we do not believe in an afterlife does not invalidate these things.
What you refer to as "real atheists" is nothing more than a caricature that you religious folk like to propogate. But it has no basis in reality.
There you've said it ..."no basis in reality" . That's the whole point , love and meaning have no basis in reality in Atheism. They are no more real or valid than a psychiatric patient creating the idea 'for himself' that he is Julius Caesar. It's all in his own head. Isn't that the whole point of being an Atheist that you believe that love and meaning have no basis in reality (= nihilism). It's just a subjective idea. Afterlife or no afterlife , you believe love is just an idea and a feeling , I do not. Can you see the difference? If not then I'm afraid you have sold yourself out to an intellectual kop out. I am creating a caricature in a sense and I can understand why you wouldn't want to face the uncomfortable truth about Atheism=Nihilism, it takes you to the void and a whole different set of questions. Do you not even see that you have something to struggle with?
Are Atheists kidding themselves?
19 Mar '06 21:50
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