09 Nov 10
2 edits
So many times I have heard the argument that since so many people believe in God (or Christian god) it must be true.
Are there any believers on this forum who feel even slightly embarrased when your faith is championed by people using this argument?? Do you not feel your faith somewhat cheapened that it is made to stand upon a blatant logical fallacy?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
10 Nov 10
Originally posted by AgergActually when I hear that things must be true because so many people believe , I am immediately skeptical. Just like when some says "everyone knows".
So many times I have heard the argument that since so many people believe in God (or Christian god) it must be true.
Are there any believers on this forum who feel even slightly embarrased when your faith is championed by people using this argument?? Do you not feel your faith somewhat cheapened that it is made to stand upon a blatant logical fallacy?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
My own take on spirituality is not popular in real life or on the net. I follow ideas that seem silly to most around me and there have been times when for years I did not have anyone to talk about my spirituality with. I guess thats what I call my own faith-thingy.
Its always good to know who your talking to before you start talking and then only reveal certain things when the right questions are asked.
10 Nov 10
Originally posted by AgergI actually use a similar argument against faith:
So many times I have heard the argument that since so many people believe in God (or Christian god) it must be true.
Are there any believers on this forum who feel even slightly embarrased when your faith is championed by people using this argument?? Do you not feel your faith somewhat cheapened that it is made to stand upon a blatant logical fallacy?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
Since the most popular religion in the world has less that 1/3 of the world following it (or professing to, and that's not taking into consideration the various warring factions within that one faith), that implies to me that it, and every other faith, has very little likelihood of being correct. I would have thought that the one true faith would have at least 1/2 the population believing in it, with very little internal conflict
Would any atheists feel embarrassed on hearing this argument?
--- Penguin
10 Nov 10
1 edit
Originally posted by AgergI've heard it many times. But I have never heard the opposite: "I belong to a minority so I'm not sure that I am right."
So many times I have heard the argument that since so many people believe in God (or Christian god) it must be true.
Many denominations (most of them?) belong to a minority in the society. Only catolisism are in majority in the christian world. So they must be right...?
However, in Sweden catolisism are wrong, because here they are in minority. :/
One creationist here at RHP said once that [an American magazine] have made a poll, that gave the result that 80% of all people believed in creationism, therefore it must be right. I answered something like "Yes, the American people. Not elsewhere." This is one way to use statistics, to show you belong to a majority and therefore must be right. "More than 95% of the population [in Bagdad] is muslims, therefore Islam is the only true religion there is [in Bagdad]".
10 Nov 10
1 edit
Originally posted by PenguinI would certainly divorse myself from that argument. What the masses of people believe have no bearing on what is true; and yes...this works both ways.
I actually use a similar argument [b]against faith:
Since the most popular religion in the world has less that 1/3 of the world following it (or professing to, and that's not taking into consideration the various warring factions within that one faith), that implies to me that it, and every other faith, has very little likelihood of being correct. ...[text shortened]... al conflict
Would any atheists feel embarrassed on hearing this argument?
--- Penguin[/b]
The only time to use that argument as far as I'm concerned is in response to the same argument by theists; the reason for this being to show it is an invalid argument.
10 Nov 10
Originally posted by FabianFnasI think I recall seeing something similar to that recently, though I forget who the poster was putting forward that poll as support for their belief!
I've heard it many times. But I have never heard the opposite: "I belong to a minority so I'm not sure that I am right."
Many denominations (most of them?) belong to a minority in the society. Only catolisism are in majority in the christian world. So they must be right...?
However, in Sweden catolisism are wrong, because here they are in minority. ...[text shortened]... [in Bagdad] is muslims, therefore Islam is the only true religion there is [in Bagdad]".
10 Nov 10
Originally posted by PenguinI would use that argument to show that a given religion should not be assumed by default. I wouldn't use it to argue that all religions are false.
Would any atheists feel embarrassed on hearing this argument?
--- Penguin
I might also use it to argue that a religion that claims that there is a God that wants us all to believe in him is false.
10 Nov 10
1 edit
Originally posted by twhiteheadJust want to point out (more for Penguin's benefit) that in both the cases you would use that argument you are simply refuting some universal theist claim by showing it doesn't hold for special cases (of which there are many).
I would use that argument to show that a given religion should not be assumed by default. I wouldn't use it to argue that all religions are false.
I might also use it to argue that a religion that claims that there is a God that wants us all to believe in him is false.
This is a wholly different type of argument than the one penguin is using.
10 Nov 10
3 edits
Originally posted by Agerg==================================
So many times I have heard the argument that since so many people believe in God (or Christian god) it must be true.
Are there any believers on this forum who feel even slightly embarrased when your faith is championed by people using this argument?? Do you not feel your faith somewhat cheapened that it is made to stand upon a blatant logical fallacy?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
So many times I have heard the argument that since so many people believe in God (or Christian god) it must be true.
=======================================
List three major Christian theologians or Christian philosophers of this or last century who have put forth such an argument.
Ie. A large number of Christian believers proves that the New Testament is true.
10 Nov 10
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillWhy??? I fail to see where referenced sophisicated philosophers
[b]==================================
So many times I have heard the argument that since so many people believe in God (or Christian god) it must be true.
=======================================
List three major Christian theologians or Christian philosophers of this or last century who have put forth such an argument.
Ie. A large number of Christian believers proves that the New Testament is true.[/b]
10 Nov 10
1 edit
Originally posted by AgergWhy not ???
Why??? I fail to see where referenced sophisicated philosophers
You claim it is such a popular argument. Then won't you strengthen your complaint by pointing out major Christian thinkers that use it ?
By the way, the same interesting article you pointed to said this:
"The argumentum ad populum can be a valid argument in inductive logic; for example, a poll of a sizeable population may find that 90% prefer a certain brand of product over another. A cogent (strong) argument can then be made that the next person to be considered will also prefer that brand, and the poll is valid evidence of that claim. "
That is similar to the logic I employed recently with you.
In the thread on Soul Winning I said a greater proportion of people debating about the Deity of Jesus as opposed to the Deity of Thor presents a cogent case that the next person, (in this case you), is likely to share the concept -
That is the concept that the argument for the actual Godness of Jesus Christ is more serious a debate then that of the actual Godness of Thor.
Thanks for the article and its confirmation to my point.
10 Nov 10
3 edits
Originally posted by jaywillWrong again jaywill...your argument sought to damage my own opinion that all gods are equiprobable by appealing to what the masses think. This is just folly, plain and simple. What the majority of people think is a poor indicator of correctness.
Why not ???
You claim it is such a popular argument. Then won't you strengthen your complaint by pointing out major Christian thinkers that use it ?
By the way, the same interesting article you pointed to said this:
"The argumentum ad populum can be a valid argument in inductive logic; for example, a poll of a sizeable population may find tha of the actual Godness of Thor.
Thanks for the article and its confirmation to my point.
You are also misapplying the inductive argument as well (no surprises there!)
Your point has not been confirmed. ;]
10 Nov 10
1 edit
Originally posted by Agerg===============================
Wrong again jaywill...your argument sought to damage my own opinion that all gods are equiprobable by appealing to what the masses think. This is just folly, plain and simple. What the majority of people think is a poor indicator of correctness.
You are also misapplying the inductive argument as well (no surprises there!)
Your point has not been confirmed. ;]
Wrong again jaywill...your argument sought to damage my own opinion that all gods are equiprobable by appealing to what the masses think. This is just folly, plain and simple. What the majority of people think is a poor indicator of correctness.
===================================
Underwhelmed here by your logic.
What the greater proportion of discussers alot time to debate rather then not debate establishes cogent evidence that all considerations for the identity of God are not equally worthy of serious debate.
10 Nov 10
2 edits
Originally posted by jaywillOh jaywill!...jaywill, jaywill, jaywill 😵
[b]===============================
Wrong again jaywill...your argument sought to damage my own opinion that all gods are equiprobable by appealing to what the masses think. This is just folly, plain and simple. What the majority of people think is a poor indicator of correctness.
===================================
Underwhelmed here by your ...[text shortened]... idence that all considerations for the identity of God are not equally worthy of serious debate.[/b]
So more people discuss Bible god than they discuss Thor. Well no s**t Sherlock! More people being Christians makes for more discussions about Christian concepts!!!...does this greater number of discussions render Bible god more plausible than Thor?
No!
Similarly, that more people here in the UK discuss the "X-Factor" or football than they discuss education policy doesn't make plausible the assertion who's going to win the X-Factor, or who's going to win the Premiership (or whatever is referred to as the top league in football now) is more useful to society than the education of soon-to-be adults and future decision makers.