1. Standard memberKellyJay
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    07 Jun '16 03:31
    I think the OSAS question should start here.

    If salvation does not begin until judgment day than no one is saved now
    in this life time.

    If salvation begins in this life time, then question becomes why isn't it
    OSAS?

    If someone can pretend to be saved, or miss the mark completely than
    that does not take away from someone who is saved in this life time.

    Are there other choices?

    So when does it begin?
  2. SubscriberSuzianne
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    07 Jun '16 07:541 edit
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    I think the OSAS question should start here.

    If salvation does not begin until judgment day than no one is saved now
    in this life time.

    If salvation begins in this life time, then question becomes why isn't it
    OSAS?

    If someone can pretend to be saved, or miss the mark completely than
    that does not take away from someone who is saved in this life time.

    Are there other choices?

    So when does it begin?
    I think you'll probably have another birthday before you get an answer to this from the ones you're talking to. Yeah, the ones who "call out" and "challenge" others but who can't be bothered to answer this.
  3. SubscriberFMF
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    07 Jun '16 08:14
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    I think you'll probably have another birthday before you get an answer to this from the ones you're talking to. Yeah, the ones who "call out" and "challenge" others but who can't be bothered to answer this.
    Can you be bothered to answer it? 😉
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    07 Jun '16 10:01
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    I think the OSAS question should start here.

    If salvation does not begin until judgment day than no one is saved now
    in this life time.

    If salvation begins in this life time, then question becomes why isn't it
    OSAS?

    If someone can pretend to be saved, or miss the mark completely than
    that does not take away from someone who is saved in this life time.

    Are there other choices?

    So when does it begin?
    "Salvation" had its "beginning" before time began. Before God had created this world or any living being did God provide salvation.

    Ephesians 1:4-14

    According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    Before the beginning of time God planned our salvation.

    Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

    Before time began God accepted us in Christ.

    To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

    Before time began God had planned how we would be saved.

    In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

    Before time began God planned the whole matter of salvation for us and how He would reveal salvation to us.

    Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
    Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
    That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
    In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
    That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.


    Then, at the moment in time when we trusted in God's plan of redemption the Holy Spirit sealed us until the "redemption of the purchased possession", which is all who trust in what Jesus did on the cross on our behalf, securing our salvation for all eternity.

    In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
    Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
  5. Standard memberKellyJay
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    07 Jun '16 12:04
    Originally posted by josephw
    "Salvation" had its "beginning" before time began. Before God had created this world or any living being did God provide salvation.

    Ephesians 1:4-14

    [b]According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:


    Before the beginning of time God planned our salvation.

    [ ...[text shortened]... inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.[/b][/b]
    You are missing the question, but I love your answer anyway. 🙂
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    07 Jun '16 12:28
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    I think the OSAS question should start here.

    If salvation does not begin until judgment day than no one is saved now
    in this life time.

    If salvation begins in this life time, then question becomes why isn't it
    OSAS?

    If someone can pretend to be saved, or miss the mark completely than
    that does not take away from someone who is saved in this life time.

    Are there other choices?

    So when does it begin?
    Depends on who you believe.

    If you believe Jesus, then salvation does not begin until the individual no longer commits sin. Unfortunately many Christians believe those other than Jesus or disingenuously ignore what Jesus repeatedly said while He walked the Earth.
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    07 Jun '16 14:38
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    Depends on who you believe.

    If you believe Jesus, then salvation does not begin until the individual no longer commits sin. Unfortunately many Christians believe those other than Jesus or disingenuously ignore what Jesus repeatedly said while He walked the Earth.
    So apparently you believe there are Christians who don't sin, either knowingly or unknowingly?
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    07 Jun '16 15:032 edits
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    So apparently you believe there are Christians who don't sin, either knowingly or unknowingly?
    While Jesus walked the Earth, Jesus taught not only that His true disciples would be made free from committing sin, but that it was required for eternal life / the kingdom / salvation. I believe HIm where He said that it's possible for a human being to no longer commit sin. Don't you?

    Your question is irrelevant.
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    07 Jun '16 15:16
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    While Jesus walked the Earth, Jesus taught not only that His true disciples would be made free from committing sin, but that it was required for eternal life / the kingdom / salvation. I believe Him. Don't you?

    Your question is irrelevant.
    Your question is irrelevant.

    I would be interested in your view on checkbaiter's question, it's not a difficult one and I don't think it is irrelevant.

    Quote of checkbaiter "So apparently you believe there are Christians who don't sin, either knowingly or unknowingly?"

    What are your thoughts?
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    07 Jun '16 15:18
    Originally posted by yoctobyte
    Your question is irrelevant.

    I would be interested in your view on checkbaiter's question, it's not a difficult one and I don't think it is irrelevant.

    [b]Quote of checkbaiter "So apparently you believe there are Christians who don't sin, either knowingly or unknowingly?"


    What are your thoughts?[/b]
    How exactly is it relevant? Either one believes Jesus or they don't.
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    07 Jun '16 15:45
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    How exactly is it relevant? Either one believes Jesus or they don't.
    Nevermind.
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    07 Jun '16 15:533 edits
    Originally posted by yoctobyte
    Nevermind.
    Even though the question is irrelevant, I will say this:

    Perhaps the most prevalent theme in the teachings of Jesus while He walked the Earth, was the importance of His word: Understanding, believing, following and KEEPing His word.

    With that in mind:
    John 8
    31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.” ... 34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. 35“The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever. 36“So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.


    A requirement for being made free from committing sin is to "continue in [His] word". As such, it wouldn't make sense that those Christians who do not believe His word would ever "know the truth" and be made free from committing sin.
  13. Standard memberKellyJay
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    07 Jun '16 15:54
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    So apparently you believe there are Christians who don't sin, either knowingly or unknowingly?
    I think if we settle down on the when it begins we can address the conditions after that.
    Right now no one seems to be willing to say "I believe it starts here..." than gives the
    reasons why! It is just pushed it off to something vague without coming up with a specific
    point in time. AGAIN not asking for how, but when!
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    07 Jun '16 15:56
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    I think if we settle down on the when it begins we can address the conditions after that.
    Right now no one seems to be willing to say "I believe it starts here..." than gives the
    reasons why! It is just pushed it off to something vague without coming up with a specific
    point in time. AGAIN not asking for how, but when!
    Right now no one seems to be willing to say "I believe it starts here..." than gives the
    reasons why!


    Actually, I did.
  15. Standard memberRajk999
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    07 Jun '16 16:052 edits
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    I think if we settle down on the when it begins we can address the conditions after that.
    Right now no one seems to be willing to say "I believe it starts here..." than gives the
    reasons why! It is just pushed it off to something vague without coming up with a specific
    point in time. AGAIN not asking for how, but when!
    I cannot remember seeing where YOU state where YOU think it starts. You start fishing expedition threads. [Sometimes the JWs here do that]. Unlike me... I post my opinion, I give my supporting references and then I invite discussions. That way people know where I stand. Its the honest way to discuss issues. Your way borders on dishonesty.
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