Atheisms Final Cry

Fear!?? Bah! I have more fear of the dark than what scriptures say.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes Ullr, but dont you think that Joseph is simply trolling the forum, as his continual and in my opinion rather insipid attacks of atheism have shown? What he fails to understand is how this type of misuse and misapplication of scripture can possibly adorn the teaching of the Christ? its not the texts fault, for there are many beautiful visions con ...[text shortened]... of one instance in which Christ tried to motivate others through a morbid fear of consequences.

Do I think Joseph is simply trolling this forum? Often times yes although sometimes he seems to be able to have a reasonable discussion. Anyhow, in this case I think he is doing exactly what many folks in what you have referred to as "Christendom" have been doing for a long time and that is scaremongering using the Book of Revelation as the hammer.

Okay so let's talk about Revelation itself. Admittedly I'm about the furthest thing from a biblical scholar you can imagine but in just reading the first few chapters online it reads to me an awful lot like an admonishion and warning pointed directly at the churches that existed at that time (i.e. the 7 churches). I also find this opening verse very peculiar.

"1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John"

Okay what jumps right out at me is "shortly come to pass". This was about 2000 years ago no?

Originally posted by Ullr
Do I think Joseph is simply trolling this forum? Often times yes although sometimes he seems to be able to have a reasonable discussion. Anyhow, in this case I think he is doing exactly what many folks in what you have referred to as "Christendom" have been doing for a long time and that is scaremongering using the Book of Revelation as the hammer.

Okay hortly come to pass". This was about 2000 years ago no?, 'shortly come to pass', well

yes its an interesting phenomena, in my wifes country they are very superstitious about it, i once saw a women in the street, crying, saying that she had been made unwell because of reading the book of revelation. Unless you can appeal to someone on the basis of love, they shall never be motivated, that is why scaremongering is doomed to failure.

As for the phrase 'shortly come to pass', well it is important to understand that prophesy may have immediate and long term fulfilment, thus we read of Christ's prophecy concerning the destruction of Jerusalem as having an immediate fulfilment after Titus came and sacked the city and a greater fulfilment for the entire system of things, Jerusalem being a symbol of those who rejected Christ etc. Added to this that the Bible states that a thousand years are with God as one day and its easy to reconcile the idea. Whether you accept it of course is a different matter, never the less, to rationalise something like prophecy can be done, but its never very satisfactory me thinks.

The real crux of the matter can be found in this portion of text, for John himself states in the very same chapter,

(Revelation 1:9-10) . . .I John, your brother and a sharer with you in the tribulation and kingdom and endurance in company with Jesus, came to be in the isle that is called Patmos for speaking about God and bearing witness to Jesus.  By inspiration I came to be in the Lord’s day,. . .

thus although John received the vision, its fulfilment was yet for a future time, which he describes as being the lords day, an unspecified time yet in the future, thus we have elements which contain immediate fulfilment, for example the counsel to the congregations in Asia and those with a future fulfilment, the destruction of Babylon the great, the four horsemen of the apocalypse etc etc .

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes its an interesting phenomena, in my wifes country they are very superstitious about it, i once saw a women in the street, crying, saying that she had been made unwell because of reading the book of revelation. Unless you can appeal to someone on the basis of love, they shall never be motivated, that is why scaremongering is doomed to failure.
...[text shortened]... filment, the destruction of Babylon the great, the four horsemen of the apocalypse etc etc .

Okay well that explanation makes some sense. Thanks. I'll read on.

Originally posted by Ullr
Okay well that explanation makes some sense. Thanks. I'll read on.

you are reading the book of revelation, how commendable!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
you are reading the book of revelation, how commendable!

Well before you commend me understand that I like watching a good car crash or train wreck and enjoyed the movie 2012 too! lol

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes its an interesting phenomena, in my wifes country they are very superstitious about it, i once saw a women in the street, crying, saying that she had been made unwell because of reading the book of revelation. Unless you can appeal to someone on the basis of love, they shall never be motivated, that is why scaremongering is doomed to failure.

filment, the destruction of Babylon the great, the four horsemen of the apocalypse etc etc .

So with that time line, some future Christian, say 20,000 years from now, if there are Christians or humans on the planet in that era, an asteroid hits and blows out 80% of life on the planet like what happened in the cretaceous, then that Christian would say,
"See, we TOLD you so'.

I have a 1/4th baked theory of catastrophe: I think buried memories come down in hidden places in DNA and stories like the flood and such were real events that were seen by humans, whether 600 or 60,000 years ago, traumatic memory imprints in DNA and it feeds into dreams and such, giving rise to catastrophe tales and predictions of coming catastrophe.

Originally posted by Ullr
Well before you commend me understand that I like watching a good car crash or train wreck and enjoyed the movie 2012 too! lol

gulp! 🙂

Originally posted by sonhouse
So with that time line, some future Christian, say 20,000 years from now, if there are Christians or humans on the planet in that era, an asteroid hits and blows out 80% of life on the planet like what happened in the cretaceous, then that Christian would say,
"See, we TOLD you so'.

I have a 1/4th baked theory of catastrophe: I think buried memories com ...[text shortened]... into dreams and such, giving rise to catastrophe tales and predictions of coming catastrophe.

i dont think its half baked, in fact i think its pretty well acknowledged that we are, as a species on the verge of a cataclysmic disaster, whether its economic, environmental, religious - the book of revelation mentions them all!