1. Donationbuckky
    Filthy sinner
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    11 Jun '11 14:19
    Is the atheist saying he knows for a fact that God does not exist ? The agnostic leaves the door open for what ever truth might be. The believer claims to know for sure what truth is. It seems the agnostic has the most rational stance.
  2. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
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    11 Jun '11 14:36
    Originally posted by buckky
    Is the atheist saying he knows for a fact that God does not exist ? The agnostic leaves the door open for what ever truth might be. The believer claims to know for sure what truth is. It seems the agnostic has the most rational stance.
    Yes, you understand. Being rational is good, but at some
    point before the agnostic dies, he must make a decison.
    I liken the agnostic to a child in a ice cream shop that
    can't decide what type of ice cream he wants. Finally
    the shop closes and he must leave with no ice cream at
    all.
  3. Cape Town
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    11 Jun '11 14:533 edits
    Originally posted by buckky
    Is the atheist saying he knows for a fact that God does not exist ? The agnostic leaves the door open for what ever truth might be. The believer claims to know for sure what truth is. It seems the agnostic has the most rational stance.
    Do you consider yourself agnostic about the existence of Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy?

    I think it really comes down to what you mean when you say "I don't believe xyz".
    What does "know for a fact" mean? Do you 'know for a fact' that gravity exists? Or are you agnostic about it?
  4. Wat?
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    11 Jun '11 14:59
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Yes, you understand. Being rational is good, but at some
    point before the agnostic dies, he must make a decison.
    I liken the agnostic to a child in a ice cream shop that
    can't decide what type of ice cream he wants. Finally
    the shop closes and he must leave with no ice cream at
    all.
    I liken the agnostic to seeing beyond a need for the ice-cream shop. πŸ˜›
  5. Donationbuckky
    Filthy sinner
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    11 Jun '11 15:04
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Yes, you understand. Being rational is good, but at some
    point before the agnostic dies, he must make a decison.
    I liken the agnostic to a child in a ice cream shop that
    can't decide what type of ice cream he wants. Finally
    the shop closes and he must leave with no ice cream at
    all.
    So if I decide to become a Hindu will I be OK ? Or is it I must decide to become a Christian, and then I've made the right decision ? Could I make it if I become a Jew ?
  6. Standard memberRJHinds
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    11 Jun '11 15:241 edit
    Originally posted by buckky
    So if I decide to become a Hindu will I be OK ? Or is it I must decide to become a Christian, and then I've made the right decision ? Could I make it if I become a Jew ?
    I think you can be anything you choose, but Jesus is the only one
    that can save you from the punishment of eternal torment due to
    you for the sins you have commited. So you must repent of your
    sins and trust in Jesus for salvation.
  7. Donationbuckky
    Filthy sinner
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    11 Jun '11 15:32
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    I think you can be anything you choose, but Jesus is the only one
    that can save you from the punishment of eternal torment due to
    you for the sins you have commited. So you must repent of your
    sins and trust in Jesus for salvation.
    You sort of remind me of a Chatty Cathy Doll. Pull the string and a few sayings will come out. Like a robot.
  8. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
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    11 Jun '11 15:53
    Originally posted by buckky
    You sort of remind me of a Chatty Cathy Doll. Pull the string and a few sayings will come out. Like a robot.
    I enjoyed that bit of humor.
  9. SubscriberProper Knob
    Cornovii
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    11 Jun '11 16:44
    Originally posted by buckky
    Is the atheist saying he knows for a fact that God does not exist ? The agnostic leaves the door open for what ever truth might be. The believer claims to know for sure what truth is. It seems the agnostic has the most rational stance.
    Is the atheist saying he knows for a fact that God does not exist ?

    I don't think any atheist could say they know for a fact God does not exist. I certainly don't.
  10. Standard memberavalanchethecat
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    11 Jun '11 17:24
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Yes, you understand. Being rational is good, but at some
    point before the agnostic dies, he must make a decison.
    I liken the agnostic to a child in a ice cream shop that
    can't decide what type of ice cream he wants. Finally
    the shop closes and he must leave with no ice cream at
    all.
    You view your religion as a flavour of ice-cream? And are you asserting that one particular flavour of ice-cream is right whereas all others are wrong? And that it is better to have ice-cream than not? When you think about it, that analogy really doesn't work at all, does it?

    And incidentally, there is absolutely no need for the agnostic to 'make a decision' on this matter prior to death. Why do you believe this is so?
  11. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    11 Jun '11 17:29
    Originally posted by buckky
    Is the atheist saying he knows for a fact that God does not exist ? The agnostic leaves the door open for what ever truth might be. The believer claims to know for sure what truth is. It seems the agnostic has the most rational stance.
    Most atheists do NOT claim to know that god does not exist. Even Richard Dawkins does not claim to 'know' that. A vast majority of atheists make no knowledge claims whatsoever about the existence of a god or gods.

    It seems to be a popularly held view that there are theists on one side, claiming to know that god exists, atheists on the other side, claiming to know that god does not exist, and smug agnostics in the middle claiming to be a reasonable middle ground between both unprovable extremes. The only problem is that this view is completely FALSE. Agnosticism does NOT exist as a separate category apart from theism or atheism. It exists solely as a modifier to those two categories, as in agnostic theist, or agnostic atheist. Nobody is just an agnostic. If you are not a theist, then by definition you are an atheist. If you feel it necessary you may qualify that by self identifying as an 'agnostic atheist.'
  12. Standard memberavalanchethecat
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    11 Jun '11 17:41
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Most atheists do NOT claim to know that god does not exist. Even Richard Dawkins does not claim to 'know' that. A vast majority of atheists make no knowledge claims whatsoever about the existence of a god or gods.

    It seems to be a popularly held view that there are theists on one side, claiming to know that god exists, atheists on the other side, claimi ...[text shortened]... If you feel it necessary you may qualify that by self identifying as an 'agnostic atheist.'
    Strictly speaking, I think you're wrong on this one Mr Merciless. These terms are defined quite clearly in most dictionaries along the lines you dismiss as popularly held but false.
  13. Standard memberblack beetle
    Black Beastie
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    11 Jun '11 17:56
    Originally posted by buckky
    Is the atheist saying he knows for a fact that God does not exist ? The agnostic leaves the door open for what ever truth might be. The believer claims to know for sure what truth is. It seems the agnostic has the most rational stance.
    My fate depends on causes and conditions, therefore I do not rely on gods. The usefulness of notions of God/Gods is non-existent to me😡
  14. Joined
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    11 Jun '11 18:04
    Originally posted by buckky
    Is the atheist saying he knows for a fact that God does not exist ? The agnostic leaves the door open for what ever truth might be. The believer claims to know for sure what truth is. It seems the agnostic has the most rational stance.
    What do you think of Apatheism?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatheism
  15. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    11 Jun '11 18:12
    Originally posted by avalanchethecat
    Strictly speaking, I think you're wrong on this one Mr Merciless. These terms are defined quite clearly in most dictionaries along the lines you dismiss as popularly held but false.
    As you might imagine, I do not care in the least for what your dictionary says. A fuller examination of the terms will reveal that I am quite correct.
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