Originally posted by twhiteheadExtremist never seem to have the Truth. Only a distirtion of things can be had with fringe movements from any direction. If there is a Truth to be had I doubt you will find it with lets say Fred Phelps, and his band of nut cases from Westboro Baptist.
So the truth is halfway between "not it isn't" and "yes it is"?
Please explain.
Originally posted by buckkyAnother good one. I like your fighting spirit.
Extremist never seem to have the Truth. Only a distirtion of things can be had with fringe movements from any direction. If there is a Truth to be had I doubt you will find it with lets say Fred Phelps, and his band of nut cases from Westboro Baptist.
Originally posted by buckkyThe truth is not dependent upon people, it is what it is. Extremist have issues,
Extremist never seem to have the Truth. Only a distirtion of things can be had with fringe movements from any direction. If there is a Truth to be had I doubt you will find it with lets say Fred Phelps, and his band of nut cases from Westboro Baptist.
but that does not mean there isn't a grain of truth with them either right or
left leaning. Those that lean one way or another at least they stand for
something verses one that doesn't have a clue.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayIt's not about not having a clue it's about being honest with yourself and not pretending. If I don't know something I don't know it. I can pretend that I know something, but that is living in pretend world. Not knowing something is not a bad thing. It's just the way it is, and when it comes to God there is no way I can claim to know anything about it.
The truth is not dependent upon people, it is what it is. Extremist have issues,
but that does not mean there isn't a grain of truth with them either right or
left leaning. Those that lean one way or another at least they stand for
something verses one that doesn't have a clue.
Kelly
Originally posted by buckkySo I know my kids, do you? I can claim I know my son because we have a
It's not about not having a clue it's about being honest with yourself and not pretending. If I don't know something I don't know it. I can pretend that I know something, but that is living in pretend world. Not knowing something is not a bad thing. It's just the way it is, and when it comes to God there is no way I can claim to know anything about it.
relationship together, do you have one with my son? You can claim you have
no way to know God, but because you do not in your current condition does
not at all mean that has to remain that way. The thing is I cannot prove God
is real to you, only God can, the great thing about God is, He can and does
upon an honest request.
Kelly
Originally posted by Proper KnobAny entity we could properly refer to as "God" would not be fully conceivable to the human mind, and would be, moreover, ineffable -- not describable in words. The idea of God is beyond human comprehension, because whatever is comprehended about such an entity, existent or not, must necessarily miss the mark. If you think you know something about God, that means you don't.
[b]Is the atheist saying he knows for a fact that God does not exist ?
I don't think any atheist could say they know for a fact God does not exist. I certainly don't.[/b]
For such reasons, I believe both the theist and atheist are justified only to say, "No entity I can conceive of, comprehend, or describe, could be God" and leave it at that.
Originally posted by JS357We don't know everything about God, but we know enough
Any entity we could properly refer to as "God" would not be fully conceivable to the human mind, and would be, moreover, ineffable -- not describable in words. The idea of God is beyond human comprehension, because whatever is comprehended about such an entity, existent or not, must necessarily miss the mark. If you think you know something about God, that mea ...[text shortened]... "No entity I can conceive of, comprehend, or describe, could be God" and leave it at that.
because of His Son, Jesus. "Like Father, Like Son" the old
saying goes.
Originally posted by JS357Very good.
Any entity we could properly refer to as "God" would not be fully conceivable to the human mind, and would be, moreover, ineffable -- not describable in words. The idea of God is beyond human comprehension, because whatever is comprehended about such an entity, existent or not, must necessarily miss the mark. If you think you know something about God, that mea ...[text shortened]... "No entity I can conceive of, comprehend, or describe, could be God" and leave it at that.
Originally posted by KellyJayI think you have me pegged as a non believer in a God. I'm not a non believer I'm just a person that knows nothing about the specifics. When I say I believe in God I really don't know exactlly what I mean by that. I believe this all can't be a big fluke. The fact that we are having this conversation tells me we are made up of more than flesh and bone. We think, we speculate, we make art, we make religions, we debate issues. All this to me seems like more than a passing moment that has no meaning. What the meaning is I can't say. Call me a romantic but I sense more than just a physical world. I just can't be certain about ideas or specifics because it seems so silly to pretend to know about areas that can't be known. At least I have not experienced what I feel is coherant proof of anything I could talk about for certain. I have had what I think the Christians would refer as a born again experience twenty years ago but I never bought into the Christian doctrine. I have had expeiences with yogic practices that I can't explain clearly, but lead me to believe in the spiritual world. I have had drug experiences that seemed to spiritual in nature, but who knows what it was, but it sure seemed like the real deal. I'm fascinated with the spiritual side of life, but fustrated at the same time.
So I know my kids, do you? I can claim I know my son because we have a
relationship together, do you have one with my son? You can claim you have
no way to know God, but because you do not in your current condition does
not at all mean that has to remain that way. The thing is I cannot prove God
is real to you, only God can, the great thing about God is, He can and does
upon an honest request.
Kelly
Originally posted by buckkySince the answer to the first question is a clear "No", then all that follows is worthless.
Is the atheist saying he knows for a fact that God does not exist ? The agnostic leaves the door open for what ever truth might be. The believer claims to know for sure what truth is. It seems the agnostic has the most rational stance.
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Originally posted by buckkyPretty much, although agnostic and atheist are often used interchangeably for some reason.
Is the atheist saying he knows for a fact that God does not exist ? The agnostic leaves the door open for what ever truth might be. The believer claims to know for sure what truth is. It seems the agnostic has the most rational stance.