The universe before T0 isn't the universe because it just isn't anything. The notion of something which sits in a causal chain before time (and therefore causality) began is just nonsensical. Time and space are bound together and it would be meaningless to talk about something which happened before the chain of happenings began.
Originally posted by Starrman The universe before T0 isn't the universe because it just isn't anything. The notion of something which sits in a causal chain before time (and therefore causality) began is just nonsensical. Time and space are bound together and it would be meaningless to talk about something which happened before the chain of happenings began.
Precisely. It's a bit like talking about going slower than 0mph! Even going backwards has a positive velocity, albeit going in the opposite direction.
Originally posted by CalJust Here is a puzzle I have been pondering for some time: How come there are so many atheists on this particular forum trying to denigrate or dissuade theists from their beliefs?
Consider this: go into any newspaper or magazine shop and you will find many different titles to please all tastes. For example, Bicycle racing mags or Boxing mags. Now, I for one ha ...[text shortened]... test too much?? Are these theists secretly doubting their own convictions??
In peace
CJ
Hello CJ,
I agree with 100%. Also atheists can not be spiritual.
1)To be an atheists, there is no spirit. When you die that's it there's nothing.
As far as pushing christianity on you, ( I read that in someones post) don't listen if you don't want to hear it. With all the technology we have you can just tune it out. Those of us that believe, let us believe. Those of you that don't, leave us be.
Originally posted by realeyez As far as pushing christianity on you, don't listen if you don't want to hear it. With all the technology we have you can just tune it out. Those of us that believe, let us believe. Those of you that don't, leave us be.
And we'd like it not in our science classrooms, nor in our governments, please.
You want religion, fine. Keep it to yourself (and that includes not brainwashing your children - let them make up their own minds when they are good and able).
Originally posted by realeyez I agree with 100%. Also atheists can not be spiritual.
1)To be an atheists, there is no spirit. When you die that's it there's nothing.
This is just equivocation. If you define spiritual to rely solely upon a belief in the supernatural then of course anyone who doesn't believe in the supernatural can't be spiritual. But as I and many others have pointed out already, the definition of spiritual can also rely on the human spirit, something which isn't bound to the supernatural.
Originally posted by Starrman But as I and many others have pointed out already, the definition of spiritual can also rely on the human spirit, something which isn't bound to the supernatural.
True, many others have tried to make this point, but very ineffectually.
Can you please explain to me what, exactly, you mean by "the human spirit". How, exactly, is it different from the physical body?
Is this something that lives in your thoughts and actions (I recall somebody saying that acts of kindness and generosity are "spiritual"đ.
If your "human spirit" is not supernatural, is it at least metaphysical??
Originally posted by CalJust True, many others have tried to make this point, but very ineffectually.
Can you please explain to me what, exactly, you mean by "the human spirit". How, exactly, is it different from the physical body?
Is this something that lives in your thoughts and actions (I recall somebody saying that acts of kindness and generosity are "spiritual"đ.
If your "human spirit" is not supernatural, is it at least metaphysical??
Please explain!
Oh come on, are you honestly telling me you don't know what I mean when I say human spirit? What drives us to rise up against oppression, what keeps us going when all hope seems lost, what touches us when we empathise with acts of kindness, or see suffering. All this and more. It is in our thoughts and deeds, and unless you're a mechanist materialist I guess it would be metaphysical in nature. It's not nearly as hard to understand as you're making out.
Originally posted by Starrman Oh come on, are you honestly telling me you don't know what I mean when I say human spirit? What drives us to rise up against oppression, what keeps us going when all hope seems lost, what touches us when we empathise with acts of kindness, or see suffering. All this and more. It is in our thoughts and deeds, and unless you're a mechanist materialist I g ...[text shortened]... ould be metaphysical in nature. It's not nearly as hard to understand as you're making out.
What you call human 'spirit' are, in fact, traits of human psychology. Of course, putting it like that wouldn't fit your fallacy of equivocation.
Originally posted by Palynka What you call human 'spirit' are, in fact, traits of human psychology. Of course, putting it like that wouldn't fit your fallacy of equivocation.
I'm not equivocating at all. Regardless of what they are traits of they are still there and to be spiritual is to seek answers on these and on the human condition. Why is this equivocation? Or are you just following me around sniping for lulz as usual?
Originally posted by Starrman I'm not equivocating at all. Regardless of what they are traits of they are still there and to be spiritual is to seek answers on these and on the human condition. Why is this equivocation? Or are you just following me around sniping for lulz as usual?
I don't know what's spiritual about it. Is anthropology or sociology spiritual now? Is psychology? Philosophy, perhaps? Certainly not inherently. The truth is that there are many possible worldly explanations for it without requiring the metaphysical nor being necessarily mechanicist (which is now contradictory even with modern physics).
To the point, I think this relates closely to the conversation about the mind we had some weeks ago.
Originally posted by Palynka I don't know what's spiritual about it. Is anthropology or sociology spiritual now? Is psychology? Philosophy, perhaps? Certainly not inherently. The truth is that there are many possible worldly explanations for it without requiring the metaphysical nor being necessarily mechanicist (which is now contradictory even with modern physics).
To the point, I think this relates closely to the conversation about the mind we had some weeks ago.
Note to self: change all references to 'spirit', 'spiritual', 'spirituality' to 'brain', 'neurological', 'neurology'. New MS title: 'The Neurological Quest'.
Originally posted by Bosse de Nage Note to self: change all references to 'spirit', 'spiritual', 'spirituality' to 'brain', 'neurological', 'neurology'. New MS title: 'The Neurological Quest'.
Like I said, the word spirit in 'human spirit' is a way to equivocate such psychological traits into notions of spirituality, which require the metaphysical.
All I'm saying is that the notion of 'human spirit' does not necessarily require spiritual answers. Edit - And not just 'neurological', but also 'cultural', 'social', 'anthropological', etc. Many fields of social sciences try to deal with such issues. Are such fields spirituality now?
Originally posted by Palynka All I'm saying is that the notion of 'human spirit' does not necessarily [b]require spiritual answers. Edit - And not just 'neurological', but also 'cultural', 'social', 'anthropological', etc. Many fields of social sciences try to deal with such issues. Are such fields spirituality now?[/b]
No, they are all merely applied neurology.
Nietszche wrote, 'The brain is dead! And we have killed it.'
25 May '08 14:49
Atheists on "Spirituality"
Back to Top