@sonship saidIt's your ideology about what happens to people after they die that's being challenged due to it being morally incoherent; no one is "correcting God".
IF God didn't have a greater sense of righteousness to GIVE, to bestow, how could any created life of itself possess such, that it was in the position to correct God?
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This question is for anyone who is a serious theistic Bible student.
Calm down, reflect, and just answer me this question:
How would you demonstrate to me from Scripture that my ability to offend God terminates with my physical death?
In other words, how would you use the Bible (assuming you believe it is to be believed) to show me that AFTER dying I am no longer able to transgress against God and/or the law of God?
@sonship saidThis question is for anyone who is a serious theistic Bible student.
This question is for anyone who is a serious theistic Bible student.
Calm down, reflect, and just answer me this question:
How would you demonstrate to me from Scripture that my ability to offend God terminates with my physical death?
In other words, how would you use the Bible (assuming you believe it is to be believed) to show me that AFTER dying I am no longer able to transgress against God and/or the law of God?
Calm down, reflect, and just answer me this question:
How would you demonstrate to me from Scripture that my ability to offend God does NOT terminates with my physical death?
In other words, how would you use the Bible (assuming you believe it is to be believed) to show me that AFTER dying I am able to transgress against God and/or the law of God?
@sonship saidIm not a copycat. I asked the opposite of what you asking people to do.
@Rajk999
I didn't know you could be such a copycat Rajk999.
The point is "You go first". I told you this before, your method of speaking to people does not yield results. Clearly you have a point to make. Make your point, Produce the references and then people will discuss it. Dont demand answers without first providing some indication of where you going with it.
Does this help -
"For the wages of sin are death" (Rom 6:23), the reason for death. Can you sin in death?
"
King James Version Ecclesiastes 9: 5,10
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
@medullah saidCorrect and there are many like those. My guess is that he wants to change the meaning of those as well.
Does this help -
"For the wages of sin are death" (Rom 6:23), the reason for death. Can you sin in death?
"
King James Version Ecclesiastes 9: 5,10
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
@rajk999 saidLOL
Correct and there are many like those. My guess is that he wants to change the meaning of those as well.
Berean Study Bible - Cor 2 4:4
4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
Not just the unbelievers. With some things the translation doesn't matter. Most Christian sects teach that Jesus dies on a cross, I know that the JW's believe that it was a stake; does it materially matter which if you accept that Jesus died? I don't think so. But we were warned against twisting meanings
Isiah 5:20
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who turn darkness to light and light to darkness, who replace bitter with sweet and sweet with bitter.
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Does this help -
"For the wages of sin are death" (Rom 6:23), the reason for death. Can you sin in death?
Thankyou Medullah.
What would you say then if I pointed out that the rich man in Luke 16:19-31 paid the wages of sin - death.
" . . . and the rich man died, and was buried. And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment , . . . " (v.22b,23a)
Now granted, in death, in Hades, the attitude of his soul was greatly educated. And he learned some things were true that he ignored during his life sinning and accumulating wages.
How do I know that his ability to transgress God is rendered impossible in the state he now finds himself?
What if intention is now to curse God, insult God, curse Abraham and those in the bosom of Abraham? Now it doesn't say he did that. But what would you offer as indication that is it IMPOSSIBLE for him to do that?
I like your attitude. And my interpretations of the NT are not infallible?
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King James Version Ecclesiastes 9: 5,10
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
Thankyou again.
What would you say if I countered that the pragmatic nature of Ecclesiastes is about everything Solomon knew "under the sun"? In other words Solomon throughout the book is speaking of the realm which he and everyone ELSE alive has experience. No one having died has input to the discussion.
The rich man in Luke 16:19-31 has died. He could answer the question that Solomon raised about "WHO KNOWS?"
Ecclesiastes 3:31 - "All go to one place; all are of dust, and all return to dust. WHO KNOWS . . . the breath [or spirit] of the children of men, that it goes upward; or the breath [or spirit] of the beasts, that it goes downward to the earth? "
Solomon's whole sermon in Ecclesiastes is from the standpoint of what people LIVING experientially know. All things he speaks of are about "under the sun" or pertaining to physical life. WHO KNOWS about what happens after death? Isn't this the tone of his talk.
As far as the living known "for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest."
Isn't it true that as the revelation of the Bible PROGRESSES the dead rich man KNEW something of what went on in that realm he was now in after leaving "under the sun", after leaving physical human life?
And if Jesus shows that the rich man DID KNOW about that realm, how do I know that it is impossible for him to any further commit iniquity, transgress God, insult God, or break His laws ?
Mind you, it is the rich man has no ability to do anything to those separated from that suffering section and with Abraham in "Abraham's bosom". But how do I know the rich man cannot continue crimes of ANY KIND against other souls with whom he finds himself in Hades?
@sonship
The most important aspect of you last two posts Son is Luke 16 19:31
The thing is when people site this they often forget (easily done) that it is a parable, a story to illustrate a point, not an actual occurrence. We already know that nobody in Hades can be alive as Psalm 146:4 makes it clear that
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. (King James) - sorry about the old style language but I think that it's fathomable.
The bible makes it clear that there is no thought process after death, and it is as though you are sleeping
None of us are infallible Son , and there is so much to try ang get your head around. 😛
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@sonship saidIf you believe that the Light of Christ and transformation by the Holy Spirit are available to you, free for the taking, but you are not quite ready yet to give your willing consent, that's completely understandable.
@divegeester
Now we turn the question to you.
Why are you not running through the streets yelling frantically "It doesn't exist"?
If you're an evangelist for informing the world that Jesus Christ was lying where best is your time spent?
That would be quite a scary prospect for any ego on our little planet.
But if God is Love, the way of Jesus is The Way, and Christ is the Logos, don't worry, no harm will come to you -- at least no lasting harm.
Are people ever concerned about how God feels? I imagine it might be saddening and frustrating for the God of the Christians to be feared more than trusted.