04 Oct 08
Originally posted by PinkFloydSo deathbed confessions prove that salvation is by grace ?
Nevertheless, there ARE deathbed confessions (and "thief-on-the-cross" experiences), which prove that salvation is indeed by grace ALONE---and not works.
You mean you know what happened to the people after they died ?
You are crazier than I originally thought.
04 Oct 08
8 edits
Originally posted by Rajk999You mean you know what happened to the people after they died ?
So deathbed confessions prove that salvation is by grace ?
You mean you know what happened to the people after they died ?
You are crazier than I originally thought.
LUKE 23:43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with ME in Paradise."
This was a man who at first reviled and hurled insults at Christ with the rest. Even while hanging on the cross next to Jesus, Knowing he was about to die and in very much pain. ( Matthew 27:44) and
Mark 15: 29-32
And then later he realized Jesus was and is Lord, and God. And then he just asked Jesus to remember him. And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with ME in Paradise." LUKE 23:43
This is a conversion, not just a confession. And it was all threw God's grace, Not by any works.
Now if Jesus is your Lord and Savior you will have works by your faith in Him, automatically. If you don't somethings wrong and you better take a look at yourself and your heart, and your faith in Him.
04 Oct 08
Originally posted by KingDavid403So everytime there is a deathbed confession, the result is the same. The person goes to paradise with Christ.
[b]You mean you know what happened to the people after they died ?
LUKE 23:43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with ME in Paradise."
This was a man who at first reviled and hurled insults at Christ with the rest. Even while hanging on the cross next to Jesus, Knowing he was about to die and in very much pain ...[text shortened]... things wrong and you better take a look at yourself and your heart, and your faith in Him.[/b]
Is that what you are saying? Because that was my question to PF.
I did not ask about the thief on the cross.
04 Oct 08
4 edits
Originally posted by Rajk999So everytime there is a deathbed confession, the result is the same. The person goes to paradise with Christ.
So everytime there is a deathbed confession, the result is the same. The person goes to paradise with Christ.
Is that what you are saying? Because that was my question to PF.
I did not ask about the thief on the cross.
I would say most likely no. But that really is only for God to answer. As you said earlier God knows your heart. He knows if you just doing a chant to try and get out of hell for free or not.
Mathew 7:21-23
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord "Lord,' shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father in Heaven.
22 "MANY will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many miracles in Your name??"
23 "And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.
Notice the word Many, and that these people thought they were saved and were Christians. I'm almost sure this is due to pride in themselves, and no love in their heart for God, which is shown to God by no love for all their fellow man.
Everyone loves their own family usually, and most can show love to their own click, church members, etc. But do you have love and compassion for all? That's the question I would say. We're even suppose to love our enemies. Now that's a tough one. But were sure suppose to try, And if we fail sometimes? Drink of His blood that He shed for all of us, Then eat some more of His flesh, His word.
04 Oct 08
1 edit
Originally posted by KingDavid403So would you agree with PinkFloyd then. He says that deathbed confessions prove that salvation is by grace alone.
[b]So everytime there is a deathbed confession, the result is the same. The person goes to paradise with Christ.
I would say most likely no. But that really is only for God to answer. As you said earlier God knows your heart. He knows if you just doing a chant to try and get out of hell for free or not.
Mathew 7:21-23
21 "Not everyone f His blood that He shed for all of us, Then eat some more of His flesh, His word.[/b]
My question is :
1. How do you know what % of deathbed confessions are successful, if any at all, since there is no way to prove it.
2. Does a deathbed confession (which is an exceptional case) that yields results, necessarily mean that works are not a requirement of our salvation for the rest of us?
04 Oct 08
Originally posted by PinkFloydThe defense of Jesus from unjust accusation is a work, PinkFloyd. Faith cannot exist in the
Nevertheless, there ARE deathbed confessions (and "thief-on-the-cross" experiences), which prove that salvation is indeed by grace ALONE---and not works.
absence of works, as I've pointed out repeatedly in the other thread. It is a Biblical mandate
that people of faith do works. If you only have a few minutes or hours in which you have been
a person of faith, then you only have a few minutes in which to do works.
But one cannot -- as iterated several times by several authors in the NT literature -- have faith
and not have works.
It's simply impossible.
Nemesio
P.S., this is not an argument that 'works save,' so don't bother objecting with that strawman.
It's merely an observation that there is no such thing as an unworking person of faith.
04 Oct 08
Originally posted by Rajk999PinkFloyd is correct. We are saved by grace, threw faith. Not by works lest any man should boast.
So would you agree with PinkFloyd then. He says that deathbed confessions prove that salvation is by grace alone.
My question is :
1. How do you know what % of deathbed confessions are successful, if any at all, since there is no way to prove it.
2. Does a deathbed confession (which is an exceptional case) that yields results, necessarily mean that works are not a requirement of our salvation for the rest of us?
But also faith without works is dead faith. Paul clearly stated both these. The thief on the cross and others clearly didn't have anytime to have works. They didn't have time to get baptized or anything. But they were still saved. By Grace. If they would have lived longer on this earth they would have had works also, because they were truly born again.
04 Oct 08
Originally posted by Rajk999I know enough to know that Christian behaavior doesn't include calling others names just because we don't share the same beliefs. Name-calling is a rather immature way to debate, don't you think?🙂
So deathbed confessions prove that salvation is by grace ?
You mean you know what happened to the people after they died ?
You are crazier than I originally thought.
04 Oct 08
Originally posted by PinkFloydWe all make mistakes. I wouldn't take it personal. If everyone who called someone names or said they were crazy was going to hell and not saved, I would be near the front of the line.
I know enough to know that Christian behaavior doesn't include calling others names just because we don't share the same beliefs. Name-calling is a rather immature way to debate, don't you think?🙂