Being converted on your deathbed

Originally posted by Rajk999
Two.
Thief on the cross.
And ..... ?

Is it someone you know personally?

No. It is someone a preacher told me about.

Originally posted by Rajk999
[b]My aploigies. I did not realise your skin was so thin.

I'm not. It doesn't require thin skin to recognize a boorish, insulting behavior.

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
No. It is someone a preacher told me about.

And the preacher told you the person died and received salvation ?

About the oft-quoted passage in James "faith without works is dead":

I look at it very simply--James did NOT say faith without works means you will go to hell and suffer for eternity there. He simply said it's dead. I believe there are many in heaven who don't have much to show in their walk with Christ here on earth, and that is what he meant by dead. In comparison to say, Paul, or Billy Sunday, my faith would look dead, too. The point is you can have a "dead" faith and still have faith, in my opinion.

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
About the oft-quoted passage in James "faith without works is dead":

I look at it very simply--James did NOT say faith without works means you will go to hell and suffer for eternity there. He simply said it's dead. I believe there are many in heaven who don't have much to show in their walk with Christ here on earth, and that is what he meant by de ...[text shortened]... dead, too. The point is you can have a "dead" faith and still have faith, in my opinion.

St Paul says faith without love has no meaning. What is love? It is the
expression of compassion or charity to someone, especially those in need;
in other words, love is works when properly motivated.

A dead faith is St James' equivalent of St Paul's noisy gong or clanging cymbal.

Nemesio

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
About the oft-quoted passage in James "faith without works is dead":

I look at it very simply--James did NOT say faith without works means you will go to hell and suffer for eternity there. He simply said it's dead. I believe there are many in heaven who don't have much to show in their walk with Christ here on earth, and that is what he meant by de ...[text shortened]... dead, too. The point is you can have a "dead" faith and still have faith, in my opinion.

So faith without works means you are saved.

What do you think of this verse :

James 2: 14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Do you think the answer here is 'Yes' ?

Originally posted by Rajk999
And the preacher told you the person died and received salvation ?

actually he said the person received salvation by accepting Christ as his personal savior, THEN died, but yes.

Originally posted by Nemesio
St Paul says faith without love has no meaning. What is love? It is the
expression of compassion or charity to someone, especially those in need;
in other words, love is works when properly motivated.

A dead faith is St James' equivalent of St Paul's noisy gong or clanging cymbal.

Nemesio

Could be. That's a reasonable interpretation, too.

Originally posted by Rajk999
So faith without works means you are saved.

What do you think of this verse :

James 2: 14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Do you think the answer here is 'Yes' ?

No, not faith. But Grace? Yes. I believe grace could save even that person of whom James speaks.

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
No, not faith. But Grace? Yes. I believe grace could save even that person of whom James speaks.

What about this one:

"James 2 : 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. "

Dead = Salvation ?

Seriously Pink Floyd, whatever profession you are in now, I suggest that you leave that and become a pastor. Start your own church, becuase there are fools born every day that would love to believe that they can do absolutely nothing and have dead faith and still get salvation. You will be a rich man !!

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
Could be. That's a reasonable interpretation, too.

Nemesio's interpretation is kinda the opposite of yours.
How can both be reasonable?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Its impossible to get a straight answer from you guys.
But I will be patient. Here is the question again :

How many deathbed confessions that you know of have led to salvation?

How many deathbed confessions that you know of have led to salvation?

One. My mother-in-law's sister died last year. On her deathbed she repented of her sins and confessed Christ as her Lord and Savior. This was an older woman who had been fiercely atheistic her entire life. It wasn't until after many months of suffering from a terminal illness that she finally submitted to Christ without reservation. She died soon thereafter.
_________

I answered your question, Raj, now please answer mine:

Jesus told me that if I believe in Him, I have eternal life.

I believe in Him.

Now, tell me why I shouldn't trust that I have eternal life?

Originally posted by epiphinehas
One. My mother-in-law's sister died last year. On her deathbed she repented of her sins and confessed Christ as her Lord and Savior. This was an older woman who had been fiercely atheistic her entire life. It wasn't until after many months of suffering from a terminal illness that she finally submitted to Christ without reservation. She died soon thereafter.

I think his emphasis is on the 'knowing' part. You believe that her deathbed
conversion resulted in salvation, but you don't know it. I think that was his
point.

That is, only God could know the actual state of her heart, not you. While you
might believe that it was sincere, people who are desperate can seem pretty
compelling.

Please don't see my post as expressing doubt in your mother-in-law's sincerity.
I don't know one way or the other, and consequently have no reason to
believe one thing or another. I'm just trying to follow what I think is his
point.

Nemesio

Originally posted by Rajk999
What about this one:

"James 2 : 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. "

Dead = Salvation ?

Seriously Pink Floyd, whatever profession you are in now, I suggest that you leave that and become a pastor. Start your own church, becuase there are fools born every day that would love to believe that they can do absolutely nothing and have dead faith and still get salvation. You will be a rich man !!

I never said dead = salvation. I DID say dead does NOT = a lack of salvation. If you can't see the difference, I am not sure I can explain it to you.
As far as people believeing they can do absolutely nothing and get salvation, that is most assuredly true. WE don't choose Christ; He chooses US, and alMOST every non-cultish Protestant denomination teaches that. If yours doesn't, fine. We have differing doctrines, and Christians can and do disagree on doctrine a lot. Doesn't mean one of us is going to hell over it, though. We CAN be civil-tongued and still disagree. However...

"Seriously Rajk", I was caught in President Bush's trickle down economy--and wouldn't ya know it? The textile industry didn't get trickled down; it got shat upon. So my "profession" has been former mathematician for over 5 years now. And I don't need any advice from you, sarcastic or otherwise, about finding new employment.

This will be my last transmission to you.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Nemesio's interpretation is kinda the opposite of yours.
How can both be reasonable?

😴