Can anyone do the righteous works of God without first being made righteous by God? If all our good works are simply our own done in our power or piety, then are not all our good works, not done with God so they are simply ours? Will God accept them as enough for our righteousness to enter into His Kingdom?
No, because the Father seeks those who will worship in Spirit and Truth, in addition, we are told we must be born again, that only Jesus is the Way, Truth, and Life and no one comes to the Father but by Him, and that the righteousness of God comes by grace through faith! Being made righteous is only found in Jesus Christ, without the Son you do not have the Father, without the Spirit of God you are not God's.
14 Oct 23
@kellyjay saidThere is a long list of people, before Christ, who pleased God, some were referred to as perfect, just, righteous. So your church doctrine is rubbish.
Can anyone do the righteous works of God without first being made righteous by God? If all our good works are simply our own done in our power or piety, then are not all our good works, not done with God so they are simply ours? Will God accept them as enough for our righteousness to enter into His Kingdom?
No, because the Father seeks those who will worship in Spirit a ...[text shortened]... sus Christ, without the Son you do not have the Father, without the Spirit of God you are not God's.
@rajk999 saidBefore Christ they were looking forward to Him, during Christ He was there, and after His earthly ministry, He sent the Holy Spirit to teach and lead us, it is now and always has been by faith. The only rubbish here is your insistence that we do not need God to do God's work, deceiver. Nothing about your rubbish doctrine requires the Lord respecting to do the works of God, moreover, you claim to follow Jesus but ignore His words on needing to be born again, His teaching on the Father, or the Holy Spirit. You point to scripture in one breath and belittle others who do in the next, hypocrite, you are forever taking things in the scriptures picking them out of context to make them mean what you want instead of just meaning only what they say.
There is a long list of people, before Christ, who pleased God, some were referred to as perfect, just, righteous. So your church doctrine is rubbish.
Hebrews 11:1-3
English Standard Version
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.
@kellyjay saidApparently the Holy Spirit forgot you, because you preaching nothing that Jesus preached.
Before Christ they were looking forward to Him, during Christ He was there, and after His earthly ministry, He sent the Holy Spirit to teach and lead us, it is now and always has been by faith. The only rubbish here is your insistence that we do not need God to do God's work, deceiver. Nothing about your rubbish doctrine requires the Lord respecting to do the works of God, ...[text shortened]... se was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.
14 Oct 23
@rajk999 saidYou and Satan spend a lot of time twisting the word and accusing others. How about justifying your stance with the word in the context of scripture, without taking it out of context, adding and subtracting from those things it does say, deceiver? You are such a hypocrite accusing others of not taking the word as you quote it, then turning around and belittling others as they bit bring it up in context. All because it is stressed it is the Word of God and we don't get to change it to suit us, heretic.
Apparently the Holy Spirit forgot you, because you preaching nothing that Jesus preached.
14 Oct 23
@medullah saidRighteous: morally right or justifiable; virtuous in the case of man and God that which is man's goes as far as man can go, ours is broken, as we are in constant disagreement on what is and isn't the correct way to go among ourselves. While God who is one in Being and all of His attributes righteousness, holiness, goodness, love, mercy, justice, and so on does not do anything to satisfy one while breaking another. So to do the works of God that isn't possible without God, Jesus said that we are to believe in Him to do the works of God.
@KellyJay
Just to reduce the chance of confusion, would you give a brief definition of what you mean by righteous please, Simple language if you could? 👍😉
When we do good works ours is always tainted, while in God only through His righteousness can that be dealt with.
Romans 7
So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
14 Oct 23
2 edits
@KellyJay
So thank you for the definition which seems pretty clear to me.
I would say two things. First of all the case of righteousness is covered by Abraham, who was attributed Righteousness by faith. So I like that because even if we keep falling short of the mark, faith can carry us through?
I do believe that is possible to do what is considered yet be fine works without any righteous standing. I would refer you to Matthew 7 where Jesus references individuals that do (what appears to be);fine works but are rejected because they were found to be lawless. Your thoughts ?
14 Oct 23
1 edit
@medullah saidYou have a version for that 'fine works' in Matt 7. Im familiar with the KJV and it uses the phrase 'wonderful works'. In the Greek the word for 'wonderful works' is really works of miracles. Here is Strongs Concordance:
@KellyJay
So thank you for the definition which seems pretty clear to me.
I would say two things. First of all the case of righteousness is covered by Abraham, who was attributed Righteousness by faith. So I like that because even if we keep falling short of the mark, faith can carry us through?
I do believe that is possible to do what is considered yet be fine work ...[text shortened]... t appears to be);fine works but are rejected because they were found to be lawless. Your thoughts ?
G1411 - δύναμις dunamis doo'-nam-is
From G1410; force (literally or figuratively); specifically miraculous power (usually by implication a miracle itself): - ability, abundance, meaning, might (-ily, -y, -y deed), (worker of) miracle (-s), power, strength, violence, mighty (wonderful) work.
Clearly these people had the power of the Holy Spirit and were using it to do miracles. This reminds me of some church pastors who claim to cast out devils and do miracles.
These are not good works. Good works were clearly defined by Jesus and was all about feeding the hungry, clothing the naked and helping the needy etc. Claiming to do miracles do not qualify as good works.
Basically if that is all they did then Jesus does not know them and they will be cast out.
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14 Oct 23
@kellyjay saidCough cough, the good Samaritan.
Can anyone do the righteous works of God without first being made righteous by God? If all our good works are simply our own done in our power or piety, then are not all our good works, not done with God so they are simply ours? Will God accept them as enough for our righteousness to enter into His Kingdom?
No, because the Father seeks those who will worship in Spirit a ...[text shortened]... sus Christ, without the Son you do not have the Father, without the Spirit of God you are not God's.
14 Oct 23
@ghost-of-a-duke saidOf course. Cyrus King of Persia, a total heathen. God liked the guy, gave him stuff and made him prosperous.
Cough cough, the good Samaritan.
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14 Oct 23
@rajk999 saidDavid was also a bit of a rogue.
Of course. Cyrus King of Persia, a total heathen. God liked the guy, gave him stuff and made him prosperous.
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14 Oct 23
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@kellyjay saidThe very same book tells us:
Righteous: morally right or justifiable; virtuous in the case of man and God that which is man's goes as far as man can go, ours is broken, as we are in constant disagreement on what is and isn't the correct way to go among ourselves. While God who is one in Being and all of His attributes righteousness, holiness, goodness, love, mercy, justice, and so on does not do anythi ...[text shortened]... Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
“that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them” (Romans 2:15).
Why are you in constant disagreement with what is correct when the law is written on your heart?
14 Oct 23
@rajk999 saidWhy do you use scripture to correct? Do you worship it or something, hypocrite? The thing you should recall about those people who on judgment day were told I never knew you, was they claimed the works as their own, they told Jesus that they did them in His name, Jesus didn't deny those works, He denied them! You trust in your good works, are you?
You have a version for that 'fine works' in Matt 7. Im familiar with the KJV and it uses the phrase 'wonderful works'. In the Greek the word for 'wonderful works' is really works of miracles. Here is Strongs Concordance:
[i]G1411 - δύναμις dunamis doo'-nam-is
From G1410; force (literally or figuratively); specifically miraculous power (usually by implication a mi ...[text shortened]... works.
Basically if that is all they did then Jesus does not know them and they will be cast out.
God can cast out demons, and do miracles, but the credit belongs to God, not those that are claiming to be doing them in Jesus' name. Lying deceiver where do you see the works were being done by church pastors, you make things up, you lie! Your lying doctrine is that works not the grace of God through faith saves us, so you not only deny doing works in Jesus' name, you don't even require Jesus to be anywhere involved in the process of good works. What the scriptures tell us we must be born again, as Jesus said, we are to believe in Him is the work of God.
John 6:27-29
English Standard Version
"Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.” Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”
You have no idea about the Spirit of God whom Jesus said He was going to send when He left, you deny, you lie, and what you do not do is properly interpret the scriptures, by adding and subtraction things to make it mean what you want. If the scriptures clearly say something you do not like you ignore it for your pet scriptures you think say what you want, and your anti-Christ cheering sections think you are doing a great job!