Bhagavad Gita 18 :32

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
I was happy when, as a youngster, I read in a book about Brooke-Popham sweeping the streets. I am still happy and will be happy about it, till I die. I was angry about the My Lai pictures when I saw them. I am still angry about them and will be angry about them till my death. You see the Asiatic's history memories are still fresh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

Sometimes people under stress do very bad things that normally they
would not do. There were many bad things done in the Vietnam war
on both sides. The USA tries to prevent these type incidents as much
as possible and when something like this happens all the world will hear
about it. What the North Vietnamese did, however, is not well known.
Unlike many other cultures, we try to uncover the evil deeds done by
our citizens in an attempt to prevent future incidents. It would be nice
if we could always negotiate peaceful settlements so we could prevent
war, but that appears to be an impossibility.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,899634,00.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_crimes

Righteous warring is acceptable.

But war crimes and sadistic torturing is directly related to atheistic beliefs.

Persons implicated in the above who profess some type of theism are actually theists in name only - but are not anywhere close to being theists or religious in reality.

Originally posted by Dasa
Righteous warring is acceptable.

But war crimes and sadistic torturing is directly related to atheistic beliefs.

Persons implicated in the above who profess some type of theism are actually theists in name only - but are not anywhere close to being theists or religious in reality.

I agree.

Originally posted by Dasa
Righteous warring is acceptable.

But war crimes and sadistic torturing is directly related to atheistic beliefs.

Persons implicated in the above who profess some type of theism are actually theists in name only - but are not anywhere close to being theists or religious in reality.

bull.

And highly insulting.

People have committed countless atrocities in the name of religion over the millennia.

Name me one please done in the name of atheism.

And use the standard definition of atheism meaning people who don't believe in god/s
not your half baked one that means anyone who doesn't agree with you.

Also atheism has no beliefs.
By definition.
So claiming motivation atheistic beliefs is to claim people were motivated by nothing.
which is nonsensical.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
I was happy when, as a youngster, I read in a book about Brooke-Popham sweeping the streets. I am still happy and will be happy about it, till I die. I was angry about the My Lai pictures when I saw them. I am still angry about them and will be angry about them till my death. You see the Asiatic's history memories are still fresh.

Don't be so defensive about it. Something the Japanese did 70 years ago still makes you smile to this day, in spite of all we know. Got it. You've presumably given plenty of thought to your little bit of vicarious historical "tit-for-tat" served up by the Japanese. I'd say it comes across - at least to me - as a rather haughty claim about what it may mean to "native Asians" whose ancestors were slaughtered in their millions and millions in the space of a decade by the same Japanese Army. But you put it out there and it has received scrutiny you don't especially like. Stand firm. You've obviously spent time since you were "younger" chewing over the proportionality and humanity of it all, even as you still fume over Life's pictures of Mai Lai and will do so until the day you die, as you put it. You have made yourself understood perfectly. No need to act so insecure.

Originally posted by FMF
Don't be so defensive about it. Something the Japanese did 70 years ago still makes you smile to this day, in spite of all we know. Got it. You've presumably given plenty of thought to your little bit of vicarious historical "tit-for-tat" served up by the Japanese. I'd say it comes across - at least to me - as a rather haughty claim about what it may mean to "na ...[text shortened]... ou put it. You have made yourself understood perfectly. No need to act so insecure.

My maternal grandfather and maternal granduncle fought against the British during India's freedom struggle. Both had to undergo long periods of rigorous imprisonment. The granduncle was tortured to extract confession reg.his involvement in a bomb case. The right hand thumb was bent back till the socket joint was fractured. He used to impress us children by the way the thumb could move so easily all around. He was proud of that injury.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
My maternal grandfather and maternal granduncle fought against the British during India's freedom struggle. Both had to undergo long periods of rigorous imprisonment. The granduncle was tortured to extract confession reg.his involvement in a bomb case. The right hand thumb was bent back till the socket joint was fractured. He used to impress us children by the way the thumb could move so easily all around. He was proud of that injury.

As I said, as many as 2,000,000 Indonesians, for example, were worked to death or slaughtered by the Japanese in the space of about 4 years, including relatives of mine. Your smiling - even now 70 years later - at some bit of totally inconsequential and manipulative Japanese propaganda in the run up to what amounted to a string of holocausts all across Asia, just goes to show how dehumanizing being a victim of colonialism can be and how it can even deprive the descendants of the victims their sense of proportion. You are welcome to your little smile about the Japanese Army in Singapore. I'm British and I am appalled by the unspeakably atrocious things done in the service of the British Empire; but not so much so that anything the Imperial Japanese Army did in the 1930s or 40s can make me "smile". Good grief. 😀

Originally posted by FMF
As I said, as many as 2,000,000 Indonesians, for example, were worked to death or slaughtered by the Japanese in the space of about 4 years, including relatives of mine. Your smiling - even now 70 years later - at some bit of totally inconsequential and manipulative Japanese propaganda in the run up to what amounted to a string of holocausts all across Asia, jus ything the Imperial Japanese Army did in the 1930s or 40s can make me "smile". Good grief. 😀

I tend to see it differently, for despite the famine and atrocity, i think the British Raj in
India accomplished much. Road, rail, civil engineering and other infrastructure, some
of which is still extant today. Hospitals and health care, education, of which India has a
proud history. In fact, much of what India has become is due in no small part to the
influence of the British, despite the prejudice, despite the heavy handedness and in
some instances, sheer brutality. Some of the Japanese atrocities in Indo-China, begs belief.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I tend to see it differently, for despite the famine and atrocity, i think the British Raj in India accomplished much. Road, rail, civil engineering and other infrastructure, some of which is still extant today. Hospitals and health care, education, of which India has a proud history. In fact, much of what India has become is due in no small part ...[text shortened]... in some instances, sheer brutality. Some of the Japanese atrocities in Indo-China, begs belief.

Well, I was referring to the atrocities and not to the accomplishments so that would be why you see it differently. I'll revise what I said:

I'm British and, despite its accomplishments, I am appalled by the unspeakably atrocious things done in the service of the British Empire... but not so much so that any of the atrocities or accomplishments** of the Imperial Japanese Army in the 1930s or 40s can make me "smile". 😀

** An example of an "accomplishment" is provided by rvsakhadeo: "...on capture of Singapore in the WWII, the Japanese army made Sir Brooke Popham, the ex-governor of Singapore and his other officers sweep the streets of Singapore. As a sort of tit-for-tat for all the insults the native Asians had suffered under the British rule till then. [...] I was happy when, as a youngster, I read in a book about Brooke-Popham sweeping the streets. I am still happy and will be happy about it, till I die."

Originally posted by FMF
Well, I was referring to the atrocities and not to the accomplishments so that would be why you see it differently. I'll revise what I said:

I'm British and, despite its accomplishments, I am appalled by the unspeakably atrocious things done in the service of the British Empire... but not so much so that any of the atrocities or accomplishments of the Imperial Japanese Army in the 1930s or 40s can make me "smile". 😀

I really wonder if the atrocities are comparable.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
sure thing, that besides. can i ask you , have these atrocities led to a kind of resentment of the Japanese to this very day?

In Indonesia? Back in the 70s yes. To this very day? Too much investment and assistance for it to have much traction in the media or among the elites. The victims are dying off. The 'comfort women' are dying off. Old timers I've talked to - including people I am related to - never talk about "smiling" at what the Japanese did in the short time they were here in the 40s. And no one says they were better than the Dutch, not even those nationalists who collaborated with the Japanese in order to make their move for nationhood. Can't say I've ever encountered an Indonesian stuck in the same post-colonial "tit-for-tat" mindset as rvsakhadeo seems to be.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I really wonder if the atrocities are comparable.

You may be right, robbie. But I think I can make my point to rvsakhadeo without even going there, if you get my drift.

Originally posted by FMF
Well, I was referring to the atrocities and not to the accomplishments so that would be why you see it differently. I'll revise what I said:

I'm British and, despite its accomplishments, I am appalled by the unspeakably atrocious things done in the service of the British Empire... but not so much so that any of the atrocities or accomplishments** of the Imper e-Popham sweeping the streets. I am still happy and will be happy about it, till I die."

Its not really an accomplishment, simply retribution. Perhaps rvsakhadeo may relate the details of the Jalianwala bhag, in which general Dayer, opened fire with machines guns into a crowd who had been lulled into a confined space, and killed hundreds in cold blood. or the 8 million Indians who died of starvation, while rice was being shipped out of India. These things dont die easily, they are in fact within living memory. even here, if you go to the highlands of Scotland, you can see the houses of those turned out of their homes and shipped off to America and New Zealand, Australia, to make way for more profitable sheep farming, whole generations, forcibly removed, the roofs of their houses torched. It breeds resentment and i suspect that this is what rvsakhadeo is simply displaying, a kind of resentment.

Originally posted by FMF
You may be right, robbie. But I think I can make my point to rvsakhadeo without even going there, if you get my drift.

yes, of course, you are correct.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
It breeds resentment and i suspect that this is what rvsakhadeo is simply displaying, a kind of resentment.

I get where rvsakhadeo is coming from. Of course. But a resentment that means that the Imperial Japanese Army can still raise a smile to this day - and will till rvsakhadeo dies! (or so he says) - does damage to one's humanity -at least it does to my way of thinking - that no amount of tears, shed it seems to affect a careful geopolitical balance, for what happened at Mai Lai can restore.

Shame about the tens of millions of innocent slaughtered in grotesque atrocities but, on the bright side, I did like the Brooke-Popham sweeping the streets thing