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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. Standard member Romans1009
    Retire tiger?
    05 Apr '18 03:04
    Came across an interesting comment by Billy Graham that references what defines someone as a Christian:

    “Yes, Christians can sometimes sincerely disagree on minor matters—although you should never forget that all Christians agree on those things that are really important, such as the divinity of Christ, His death on the cross for our salvation, His resurrection from the dead, and our hope of heaven.”
  2. Subscriber Rajk999
    Enjoying
    05 Apr '18 03:07
    Originally posted by @romans1009
    Came across an interesting comment by Billy Graham that references what defines someone as a Christian:

    “Yes, Christians can sometimes sincerely disagree on minor matters—although you should never forget that all Christians agree on those things that are really important, such as the divinity of Christ, His death on the cross for our salvation, His resurrection from the dead, and our hope of heaven.”
    How much of that did Jesus say?

    NONE !
  3. Standard member Romans1009
    Retire tiger?
    05 Apr '18 03:22
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    How much of that did Jesus say?

    NONE !
    Actually, you’re dead wrong but I’m sure you think you know more about Jesus Christ and the Bible than a man who devoted his adult life to God and leading people to Christ.
  4. 05 Apr '18 03:56
    Originally posted by @romans1009
    Came across an interesting comment by Billy Graham that references what defines someone as a Christian:

    “Yes, Christians can sometimes sincerely disagree on minor matters—although you should never forget that all Christians agree on those things that are really important, such as the divinity of Christ, His death on the cross for our salvation, His resurrection from the dead, and our hope of heaven.”
    That is a pretty good list.

    Not perfect. But I will choose to withhold criticism and accept this ecumenical gesture.

    One of the things that we need to remember and emphasize as well is the supernatural aspects of Christ, that validate Christ as God, because without this, the whole thing turns into something that you do not have to follow so well.

    Then you end up with all of these atheists running around talking about how they consdier Christ as a "teacher," some even calling themselves Christians, and then ultimately...

    "Ehhh I am not big into this whole chastity thing..."
  5. Subscriber Suzianne
    Misfit Queen
    05 Apr '18 04:08
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    How much of that did Jesus say?

    NONE !
    There's a word for what you're being here, but I'm 'notgonnasayit'.

    Maybe Dive can help me out here.
  6. Standard member Romans1009
    Retire tiger?
    05 Apr '18 04:15
    At some point, it becomes pointless. The Biblical Pharisees couldn’t see the truth even when Christ performed miracles before their very eyes. Why expect different from modern-day Pharisees?

    “And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

    I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”

    (John 8:23-24)
  7. 05 Apr '18 05:49
    ... Were the Apostles tortured to death for...

    ... Claiming Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that He is the Lord, and that He is the only God ...

    Or was their central claim that "these are some pretty good teachings and stuff that this guy taught us..."

    ???

    Were tens of thousands of other martyrs in the first couple centuries tortured to death, likewise, and refusing to recant, for the sake of "these pretty good teachings?"
  8. Subscriber divegeester On Vacation
    Naughtius Maximus
    05 Apr '18 09:20
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    There's a word for what you're being here, but I'm 'notgonnasayit'.

    Maybe Dive can help me out here.
    Show some grit and say it yourself if you want to say something.
  9. Subscriber divegeester On Vacation
    Naughtius Maximus
    05 Apr '18 09:24
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    ... Were the Apostles tortured to death for...

    ... Claiming Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that He is the Lord, and that He is the only God ...

    Or was their central claim that "these are some pretty good teachings and stuff that this guy taught us..."

    ???

    Were tens of thousands of other martyrs in the first couple centuries tortured to death, likewise, and refusing to recant, for the sake of "these pretty good teachings?"
    The apostles, and indeed Jesus himself, were executed as examples to the people to demonstrate the power of the Jewish religious class and power of the Roman state.

    The actual crime would have equated to sedition, but the excuse/reasons given for sedition was claiming that Jesus was the messiah. The Romans were the executioners, but it was the Jewish leaders who were responsible in bringing their issue to the Roman executives.
  10. Subscriber Rajk999
    Enjoying
    05 Apr '18 10:26
    Originally posted by @romans1009
    Actually, you’re dead wrong but I’m sure you think you know more about Jesus Christ and the Bible than a man who devoted his adult life to God and leading people to Christ.
    Lets see

    those things that are really important, such as
    - the divinity of Christ,
    - His death on the cross for our salvation,
    - His resurrection from the dead, and
    - our hope of heaven.


    Jesus never said that any of those things are really important.
    If Jesus did, then instead of waffling around please provide the references.

    The two things Jesus said are important are
    1. Love God
    2. Love your neighbour as yourself.

    Jesus further clarified by adding loads of examples of good works and righteousness which his followers must do.
  11. 06 Apr '18 00:25
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    Lets see

    those things that are really important, such as
    - the divinity of Christ,
    - His death on the cross for our salvation,
    - His resurrection from the dead, and
    - our hope of heaven.


    Jesus never said that any of those things are really important.
    If Jesus did, then instead of waffling around please provide the references.

    The t ...[text shortened]... arified by adding loads of examples of good works and righteousness which his followers must do.
    You are the quintessential example of a person that cannot see the forest from the trees.

    You ignore everything in the Bible that doesn't fit your dogma.
  12. 06 Apr '18 01:18
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    The apostles, and indeed Jesus himself, were executed as examples to the people to demonstrate the power of the Jewish religious class and power of the Roman state.

    The actual crime would have equated to sedition, but the excuse/reasons given for sedition was claiming that Jesus was the messiah. The Romans were the executioners, but it was the Jewish leaders who were responsible in bringing their issue to the Roman executives.
    So the Romans were executing Roman citizens, the overwhelming bulk fo these eventually being Greeks & Italians, at the behest of the Jews? This sounds a bit conspiratorial.

    Moreover... We always hear the testimony that simply recognizing the Emperor as a God was enough to be spared.

    And why not just renounce these teachings if there is no divinity attached to it?

    Dive... do you also believe Christ was not God?
  13. Subscriber Rajk999
    Enjoying
    06 Apr '18 01:19
    Originally posted by @secondson
    You are the quintessential example of a person that cannot see the forest from the trees.

    You ignore everything in the Bible that doesn't fit your dogma.
    So Christians have a list of important doctrines,none of which were stated by Christ.
    Plus those teachings that Christ said gives eternal life are not on that list.
    I got it.
    That is why Im not a Christian.
    I am a sheep of Christ
  14. Subscriber divegeester On Vacation
    Naughtius Maximus
    06 Apr '18 01:24 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    So the Romans were executing Roman citizens, the overwhelming bulk fo these eventually being Greeks & Italians, at the behest of the Jews? This sounds a bit conspiratorial.

    Moreover... We always hear the testimony that simply recognizing the Emperor as a God was enough to be spared.

    And why not just renounce these teachings if there is no divinity attached to it?

    Dive... do you also believe Christ was not God?
    The Romans executed whoever they chose to; Roman justice was swift and brutal. I have no idea why you find this “conspiratorial”. Italy and Italians didn’t exist in Roman time, in fact Italy is only 157 years old even now, so I think you are mistaken. Badly.

    I have no understanding of “we always hearing” this...

    What?!

    No.
  15. 06 Apr '18 04:45
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    The Romans executed whoever they chose to; Roman justice was swift and brutal. I have no idea why you find this “conspiratorial”. Italy and Italians didn’t exist in Roman time, in fact Italy is only 157 years old even now, so I think you are mistaken. Badly.

    I have no understanding of “we always hearing” this...

    What?!

    No.
    Technically there were Italic peoples who were not Romans. But I think that is not what either of us are really having in mind.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ancient_peoples_of_Italy#Italics

    Oddly enough... You could have used the term "Italian" broadly to refer to anyone on the peninsula at the time of Christ himself though at this point you would not be referring to someone from a particular ethnicity.

    Italia, the ancient name of the Italian peninsula, which is also eponymous of the modern republic, originally applied only to a part of what is now Southern Italy.

    According to Antiochus of Syracuse, it included only the southern portion of the Bruttium peninsula (modern Calabria):[1][2][3][4] the actual province of Reggio Calabria and part of the modern provinces of Catanzaro and Vibo Valentia. The town of Catanzaro has a road sign (in Italian) also stating this fact.[5]

    But by this time Oenotria and Italy had become synonymous and the name also applied to most of Lucania as well. Coins bearing the name Italia were minted by an alliance of Italic peoples (Sabines, Samnites, Umbrians and others) competing with Rome in the 1st century BC.[6]

    The Greeks gradually came to apply the name Italia to a larger region, but it was during the reign of Augustus, at the end of the 1st century BC, that the term was expanded to cover the entire peninsula until the Alps, now entirely under Roman rule.[7]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Italy

    It's not important, though, because I could have said "Chinese" or whatever and it would still have the same point.