1. Standard memberHand of Hecate
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    31 Jan '13 02:27
    “When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said, 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land.”

    Funny how that happens.
  2. Standard membersonship
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    31 Jan '13 02:45
    Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
    “When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said, 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land.”

    Funny how that happens.
    Where can I find this quotation of Desmond Tutu?

    Why did he remain in the Anglican denomination as a cleric?

    And why did he head up the Truth and Reconciliation hearings which were really based on Christian principles of confession and forgivenenss for reconcilation ?

    He must have seen something still worthy in the teachings of Jesus.
  3. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    31 Jan '13 03:34
    For you non-Brits.

    In UK a lower second-class honours degree is known as a Desmond.
    (Because its a 2.2)
  4. Standard memberRJHinds
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    31 Jan '13 04:01
    Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
    “When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said, 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land.”

    Funny how that happens.
    This Bishop Desmond Tutu sounds like a very cynical guy. 😏
  5. Standard memberHand of Hecate
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    31 Jan '13 04:02
    Originally posted by sonship
    Where can I find this quotation of Desmond Tutu?

    Why did he remain in the Anglican denomination as a cleric?

    And why did he head up the Truth and Reconciliation hearings which were really based on Christian principles of confession and forgivenenss for reconcilation ?

    He must have seen something still worthy in the teachings of Jesus.
    Do I look like Google to you? Look up your own quotes FFS.

    I imagine that he thought it wise to follow the time worn adage of "If you can't beat 'em join 'em."

    With regards to Truth and Reconcilliation, forgiveness isn't a philosophy exclusive to Christianity. Rather a reasonable path to not further squandering our short mortal lives on revenge and bitterness.
  6. Standard memberhakima
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    31 Jan '13 04:15
    Originally posted by sonship
    Where can I find this quotation of Desmond Tutu?

    Why did he remain in the Anglican denomination as a cleric?

    And why did he head up the Truth and Reconciliation hearings which were really based on Christian principles of confession and forgivenenss for reconcilation ?

    He must have seen something still worthy in the teachings of Jesus.
    Bishop Tutu wasn't calling the Bible or Jesus into question, he was confronting the manner in which the missionaries (particularly white, European) used their Bibles to subjugate Africans (particularly black). Tutu, perhaps understands Christianity in quite a different way, reflective of the manner in which he preaches and practices.
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    31 Jan '13 07:002 edits
    Originally posted by sonship
    Where can I find this quotation of Desmond Tutu?

    Why did he remain in the Anglican denomination as a cleric?

    And why did he head up the Truth and Reconciliation hearings which were really based on Christian principles of confession and forgivenenss for reconcilation ?

    He must have seen something still worthy in the teachings of Jesus.
    Without my vouching for it, this is as least a claimed source:

    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Desmond_Tutu

    quote:

    When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said "Let us pray." We closed our eyes. When we opened them, we had the Bible and they had the land.

    As quoted in Desmond Tutu: A Biography (2004) by Steven Gish, p. 101; this is a joke Tutu has used, but variants of it exist which are not original to him.

    unquote; that is, the above words are not mine. They are at:

    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Desmond_Tutu

    It does seem to be on that page of that book:

    http://books.google.com/books?id=S6UYpCoGUkgC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=snippet&q=when%20the%20missionaries&f=false

    http://books.google.com/books?id=S6UYpCoGUkgC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=snippet&q=we%20had%20the%20bible%20and%20they%20had%20the%20land&f=false

    http://books.google.com/books?id=S6UYpCoGUkgC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=snippet&q=later%20he%20turned%20serious&f=false
  8. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    31 Jan '13 07:04
    Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
    Do I look like Google to you? Look up your own quotes FFS.

    I imagine that he thought it wise to follow the time worn adage of "If you can't beat 'em join 'em."

    With regards to Truth and Reconcilliation, forgiveness isn't a philosophy exclusive to Christianity. Rather a reasonable path to not further squandering our short mortal lives on revenge and bitterness.
    "With regards to Truth and Reconcilliation, forgiveness isn't a philosophy exclusive to Christianity. Rather a reasonable path to not further squandering our short mortal lives on revenge and bitterness."

    !
  9. SubscriberSuzianne
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    31 Jan '13 16:58
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    "With regards to Truth and Reconcilliation, forgiveness isn't a philosophy exclusive to Christianity. Rather a reasonable path to not further squandering our short mortal lives on revenge and bitterness."

    !
    I see this bit stood out for you as it did for me.

    The HoH of years past wouldn't have squandered five seconds with this thought.
  10. Standard memberHand of Hecate
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    31 Jan '13 17:20
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    I see this bit stood out for you as it did for me.

    The HoH of years past wouldn't have squandered five seconds with this thought.
    I'm not the shallow pool I make myself out to be.

    I did find the good Bishop's quote interesting primarily because it reflects much of my own frustration with organized religion. If the Truth existed it has been so muddied by Man's penchant for corruption as to be meaningless if not outright destructive.
  11. SubscriberSuzianne
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    31 Jan '13 18:52
    Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
    I'm not the shallow pool I make myself out to be.

    I did find the good Bishop's quote interesting primarily because it reflects much of my own frustration with organized religion. If the Truth existed it has been so muddied by Man's penchant for corruption as to be meaningless if not outright destructive.
    And yet the Truth is still the Truth. We should always seek to peer through the veil of BS man has built up around it, though.

    And I understand your "shallow pool" comment. I know this from our PMs. I said what I said mainly for the elucidation and discernment of others.
  12. Standard memberHand of Hecate
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    31 Jan '13 20:04
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    And yet the Truth is still the Truth. We should always seek to peer through the veil of BS man has built up around it, though.

    And I understand your "shallow pool" comment. I know this from our PMs. I said what I said mainly for the elucidation and discernment of others.
    From my perspective finding spiritual Truth is like trying to figure out what is inside a heavy, sealed box without touching it. Oh, and the box has been roughly used as a frat party prop before you even got to it.
  13. SubscriberSuzianne
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    02 Feb '13 22:51
    Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
    From my perspective finding spiritual Truth is like trying to figure out what is inside a heavy, sealed box without touching it. Oh, and the box has been roughly used as a frat party prop before you even got to it.
    lol, good analogy.

    In that case, maybe I wouldn't want to touch it, hehe.

    The Truth IS out there, though. Don't give up.

    One problem is recognizing it when it comes to you.
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    03 Feb '13 02:05
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    lol, good analogy.

    In that case, maybe I wouldn't want to touch it, hehe.

    The Truth IS out there, though. Don't give up.

    One problem is recognizing it when it comes to you.
    That is true...

    So how precisely do you recognise truth when you encounter it...

    Something more impressive than it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling is in order here.
  15. Standard memberRJHinds
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    03 Feb '13 10:50
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    That is true...

    So how precisely do you recognise truth when you encounter it...

    Something more impressive than it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling is in order here.
    The Holy Spirit reveals Truth. 😏

    HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!
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