31 Jan 10
Originally posted by menace71I admit some of the things Paul taught I think seem a bit off but they seem to be cultural issues more than anything. Paul had as much authority as the other apostles I think. One of the standards I heard/read is if the person had direct contact and was taught by Christ directly they were an apostle.
So you believe then we throw away most of the new testament? I admit some of the things Paul taught I think seem a bit off but they seem to be cultural issues more than anything. Paul had as much authority as the other apostles I think. One of the standards I heard/read is if the person had direct contact and was taught by Christ directly they were an apos ...[text shortened]... e of sin experientially can any of us stop sinning? I don't think it is possible.
Manny
Paul was only an apostle insofar as he claimed that he was one. Paul only had contact with Jesus only insofar as he claimed he did. Paul was a false prophet.
Read Romans 7:14-25 and compare it to John 8:32-26. Paul contradicts what Jesus teaches. It's evident that Paul was unable to stop committing sin. Look at the warning Jesus made regarding false prophets
Matthew 7:15-20
15 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 “You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 “So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 “A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 “Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 “So then, you will know them by their fruits.
A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, yet Paul could not stop from committing sin.
On the issue of sin experientially can any of us stop sinning? I don't think it is possible.
Jesus taught that those who continued in His word and were His true disciples would be set free from the slavery of committing sin. Go back and read my previous post to you.
31 Jan 10
1 edit
Originally posted by knightmeisterWhy do you play these games.
Tell me why I am a snake and what logic you use to back up such a statement? Until such a point arrives all that anyone will see is someone who is woefully unable to respond in any meaningful way (other than to make insulting statements).
You seem to have decided long before you came on this forum that whoever disagreed with you or put up a fight tackle this question is blatently apparent , so I'm happy to keep shining a light on this.
I showed it earlier:
For someone who purports to "seek Truth", you play extremely fast and loose with it. In your effort to find something disparaging to say, you time and again resort to misrepresentations, half-truths and outright lies.
For example you said:
At least you accept that this is speculation and not explicitly stated. I presume that it's Ok for you to speculate about stuff like this but not Ok for me to speculate about Matt26:28?
However , it seems I am not allowed to speculate , but ToOne is.
Interesting.........
What blatantly false innuendo to try to make it appear that I'm guilty of some sort of double standard. I never said nor even remotely implied that you are "not allowed to speculate".
Most are your posts have similar misrepresentations, half-truths and outright lies. Do you ever stop?
31 Jan 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYour recollection does not serve you correctly. You must have me confused with someone else. We've been through this before. I never gave you any such link.
no, its not, this guy was an older gentleman, from eighteen, possible nineteen hundreds i guess, a doctor of some sort if my recollection serves me correctly. I wish i had the link, it would at least give us some insight into where our friend thinkofone is coming from, for he has the rather annoying habit of promoting his cause and then when he is pressed for explanations, he simply refuses to answer or disappears.
Similarly with your assertion of the "rather annoying habit".
I answer the vast majority of the questions put to me. However sometimes I do draw the line at questions that are irrelevant.
31 Jan 10
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneshall i find it if i need to search through all the posts that i have made? Formidable as my imaginary powers are, i did not imagine this thinkofone. if i shall need to go through all of the posts to find it i shall, in fact it may have even been in a private correspondence, let me see.
Your recollection does not serve you correctly. You must have me confused with someone else. We've been through this before. I never gave you any such link.
Similarly with your assertion of the "rather annoying habit".
I answer the vast majority of the questions put to me. However sometimes I do draw the line at questions that are irrelevant.
31 Jan 10
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneIs it relevant what denomination you subscribe to? Or do you have your own, induvidual take on christianity?
Your recollection does not serve you correctly. You must have me confused with someone else. We've been through this before. I never gave you any such link.
Similarly with your assertion of the "rather annoying habit".
I answer the vast majority of the questions put to me. However sometimes I do draw the line at questions that are irrelevant.
31 Jan 10
1 edit
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneSee that's were you and I would disagree. Just experience militates against the fact that we can be sinless in this body in this current life. I believe that Christ helps us and our desire is to not sin anymore but our very nature is at war with this. Until we get a new body at least. Have you ever spoke evil of another? Sin. Thought evil in your heart sin. Lusted after a hot women? sin. Lied? Sin. Anything short of God's perfect standard is sin. Paul was struck down by Christ. Humbled if you will by Christ. (At least if you believe the account) He was on His way to kill Christians!! How do you account for his change? People were afraid of him because he was a zealous killer of Christians. A Jew of Jews. I believe He knew Christ as any of the other disciples did maybe better in some ways. Anyway I write all with respect to you not to be argumentative just for the sake of it but to be challenged and to challenge back.
[b]I admit some of the things Paul taught I think seem a bit off but they seem to be cultural issues more than anything. Paul had as much authority as the other apostles I think. One of the standards I heard/read is if the person had direct contact and was taught by Christ directly they were an apostle.
Paul was only an apostle insofar as he claim ould be set free from the slavery of committing sin. Go back and read my previous post to you.[/b]
Manny 🙂
31 Jan 10
Originally posted by menace71What do you do with the following? Just ignore them?
See that's were you and I would disagree. Just experience militates against the fact that we can be sinless in this body in this current life. I believe that Christ helps us and our desire is to not sin anymore but our very nature is at war with this. Until we get a new body at least. Have you ever spoke evil of another? Sin. Thought evil in your heart sin. ...[text shortened]... rgumentative just for the sake of it but to be challenged and to challenge back.
Manny 🙂
John 8:32-36
So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." They answered Him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, 'You will become free'?"
Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever. So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed."
Matthew 7:15-20
15 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 “You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 “So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 “A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 “Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 “So then, you will know them by their fruits.
31 Jan 10
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneNo I try to understand them. When born of God you will never be the same. You will not go on sinning recklessly. I think to many Christians want an easy Christianity and we must obey Christ but experience must show that we all sin and fall short of God's perfect standard is all I'm saying. That is why the Blood of Christ was shed. God's perfect standard could not be totally satisfied by sinful man. Hence a Lamb that was without sin was the final payment for sin for all time that satisfied God. I would not dare walk into God's presence on my own merit that would be ludicrous to say the least.
What do you do with the following? Just ignore them?
John 8:32-36
So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, [b]"If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." They answered Him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; ...[text shortened]... is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 “So then, you will know them by their fruits.[/b]
Manny
31 Jan 10
Originally posted by menace71I think I understand what you're saying.
No I try to understand them. When born of God you will never be the same. You will not go on sinning recklessly. I think to many Christians want an easy Christianity and we must obey Christ but experience must show that we all sin and fall short of God's perfect standard is all I'm saying. That is why the Blood of Christ was shed. God's perfect standard co ...[text shortened]... lk into God's presence on my own merit that would be ludicrous to say the least.
Manny
Shouldn't what Jesus taught supersede what you are saying?
Look again at what Jesus says:
"If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free...Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin...So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed."
Clearly Jesus says that His true disciples will know the truth and be made free from the slavery of committing sin. Why don't you believe Him?
31 Jan 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSearch all you like. It doesn't exist.
shall i find it if i need to search through all the posts that i have made? Formidable as my imaginary powers are, i did not imagine this thinkofone. if i shall need to go through all of the posts to find it i shall, in fact it may have even been in a private correspondence, let me see.
31 Jan 10
Originally posted by karoly aczelYou'd think that what's relevant would be the teachings of Jesus. However, with few or no exceptions, most will try anything to avoid them as you've probably seen. By and large, Christianity has abandoned the teachings of Jesus and superseded them with the teachings of others (primarily Paul). I find this tragic. From what I can tell, most who leave Christianity do so because they can no longer reconcile Christianity with Truth. However most of them seem to continue to believe in the teachings of Jesus.
Is it relevant what denomination you subscribe to? Or do you have your own, induvidual take on christianity?
31 Jan 10
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneDo you sin? Simple question. Now I do believe in the words of Christ 🙂
I think I understand what you're saying.
Shouldn't what Jesus taught supersede what you are saying?
Look again at what Jesus says:
"If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free...Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin...So if the S ...[text shortened]... w the truth and be made free from the slavery of committing sin. Why don't you believe Him?
Manny
31 Jan 10
1 edit
Originally posted by menace71"Shouldn't what Jesus taught supersede what you are saying?" Simple question.
Do you sin? Simple question. Now I do believe in the words of Christ 🙂
Manny
And a relevant question at that.
Yet people try all manner of ways to avoid it: They ask me if I sin...They claim that they believe everything Jesus taught when their stated beliefs belie this, etc.
Earlier you said:
"Anyway I write all with respect to you not to be argumentative just for the sake of it but to be challenged and to challenge back."
Consider yourself challenged.