Born again

Originally posted by pritybetta
Read Acts. 😉

Think about what Acts is based on. It's just echoing the claims that Paul made earlier.

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"Perhaps Jesus had those like the writer of the above in mind when He said this:"

Idiotic. Reprobate.

1Co 16:22 If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

This is from the same writer. How can you suggest that Paul is a false prophet? It is because you are a deceived. You preach that one must follow the teachings of Jesus when you don't. You can't, and you never will.[/b]

"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves."

Do you even bother to read the words of Jesus?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Think about what Acts is based on. It's just echoing the claims that Paul made earlier.

Wasn't Acts written by Luke?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Read what Paul says and then read what Jesus says and discuss what's here instead of pointing elsewhere as you usually do.


[b]Romans 7:15-25
"...but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin...I do not understand...I am doing the very thing I hate...no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me...I know that nothing good dwells in me.. ...[text shortened]... is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will know them by their fruits."[/b]

didn't paul follow this passage (much of which you left out) with saying that there is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus? did he not also say that nothing can separate him from the love of God in Christ?

also, if perfection were required, what would be the use of forgiveness?
did Jesus not ask God (His Father) to forgive them because they did not know what they were doing? so surely Jesus makes atonement for sins committed in ignorance. does paul not agree when he says that he was shown grace for his persecuting the church because he acted in ignorance.

now, yes, paul does extend God's grace to cover willful acts of sin, but do you accept the aforementioned commonality to at least be a start point for agreement between the two?

Originally posted by SmoothCowboy
Wasn't Acts written by Luke?

Wasn't Luke a companion of Paul? It's still an echoing of claims made by Paul.

Originally posted by Big Mac
didn't paul follow this passage (much of which you left out) with saying that there is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus? did he not also say that nothing can separate him from the love of God in Christ?

also, if perfection were required, what would be the use of forgiveness?
did Jesus not ask God (His Father) to forgive them because they did ept the aforementioned commonality to at least be a start point for agreement between the two?

Jesus describes a false prophet. Paul fits the description. Should the words of a false prophet be used in an attempt to show that he is a true prophet? I fail to see the wisdom in that.

One can look at not striking dead everyone who does not follow the will of God as "forgiveness". Would such forgiveness necessitate the granting of "eternal life"/"heaven", etc.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Jesus describes a false prophet. Paul fits the description. Should the words of a false prophet be used in an attempt to show that he is a true prophet? I fail to see the wisdom in that.

One can look at not striking dead everyone who does not follow the will of God as "forgiveness". Would such forgiveness necessitate the granting of "eternal life"/"heaven", etc.

So God has allowed a false prophet to distort the message of his Son so completely that entire centuries of Christians have been mislead and got the wrong idea and walk in darkness?

Why would the living active Father of Jesus allow such a travesty? Where did the "true" church go? Why did God not send a counter prophet to negate Paul's teachings?

This is incoherent in the extreme. It suggests that the Holy Spirit was not able to stand against the Devil in the war for truth. It implies that men were not guided into the truth by the Spirit (as Jesus promised -' when he the Comforter comes he will guide you into all truth'😉.

So what was God playing at? Jesus said that the 'gates of hell would not prevail against his church' but you expect us to believe that little 'ol St Paul has lead us all astray?

You seem to have no unified vision of a world in which God is active and taking a role in the affairs of men. However, Jesus had a clear vision of this (and so did St Paul) and there's loads of evidence for it. It's a whole aspect of Jesus's ministry that you conveniently ignore.

Is the Father of Jesus impotent in your world view? Jesus taught that his Father was far from impotent.

Originally posted by knightmeister
So God has allowed a false prophet to distort the message of his Son so completely that entire centuries of Christians have been mislead and got the wrong idea and walk in darkness?

Why would the living active Father of Jesus allow such a travesty? Where did the "true" church go? Why did God not send a counter prophet to negate Paul's teachings? ...[text shortened]... esus impotent in your world view? Jesus taught that his Father was far from impotent.

You continue to talk out both sides of your mouth.

Do you accept this type of argument from atheists who offer "proof" that there is no God by saying stuff like: "If there was a God, would he allow priests to molest innocent children?". "Why would God allow such a travesty?". etc.

Originally posted by SmoothCowboy
Wasn't Acts written by Luke?

there is some dispute as to the authorship of acts, the book is split into 2 parts, one written in 3rd person, the other written in 1st person.

Originally posted by knightmeister
[b]So God has allowed a false prophet to distort the message of his Son so completely that entire centuries of Christians have been mislead and got the wrong idea and walk in darkness?

Well in a way, you must say that either Paul was the false prophet or someone like Mohammad was the false prophet that has been spoken of Biblically. I think you would probably pick Mohammad as being the false prophet as where TOO would pick Paul. Ironically, neither of you would pick Christ as being the false prophet even though that all that is known of him was written in the gospels which all state that he arose from the dead and is the Son of God.

Originally posted by whodey
Well in a way, you must say that either Paul was the false prophet or someone like Mohammad was the false prophet that has been spoken of Biblically. I think you would probably pick Mohammad as being the false prophet as where TOO would pick Paul. Ironically, neither of you would pick Christ as being the false prophet even though that all that is known of him was written in the gospels which all state that he arose from the dead and is the Son of God.

Do you really believe that Jesus was saying that there would only be one false prophet?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Read what Paul says and then read what Jesus says and discuss what's here instead of pointing elsewhere as you usually do.


[b]Romans 7:15-25
"...but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin...I do not understand...I am doing the very thing I hate...no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me...I know that nothing good dwells in me.. is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will know them by their fruits."[/b]

Romans 7 covers a very important lesson about sin. It finds strength in our flesh. It is exposed by for what it is by the law. And through our flesh we cannot overcome sin. Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. Rom7 tells what happens when you try to overcome sin in your flesh.Romans 7:19
(19) For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

The next chapter explains how we can have victory from sin. It is through the Spirit. That is why our spirit needs to be regenerated. Romans 8:3-4
(3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
(4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:11-14
(11) But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
(12) Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
(13) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
(14) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

If this study is correct, then Paul overcame sin and explained how we should to.
Are you quoting Rom7:15-25 out of context?

Php 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Think about what Acts is based on. It's just echoing the claims that Paul made earlier.

So do you believe in Acts, that this are not what Peter and James really said?

Matthew 7:23-27
(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
(24) Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
(25) And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
(26) And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
(27) And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Did Paul's house fall flat? He really weathered a lot of storms till his death for one you claim is a false prophet.

Numbers 12:6
(6) And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

Deuteronomy 18:20-22
(20) But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
(21) And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
(22) When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.


1 Corinthians 14:36-37
(36) What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
(37) If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Originally posted by pritybetta
Free will is not taught in the Bible, it is something that man has came up with. I was taught that we have free will, however, when I read the Bible I find nothing to support such claim.

Some one can only be saved(born again) by the grace of the Lord, not by anything the person does. The perons is dead in sin and if he is dead he can do nothing that i ...[text shortened]... d in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Free will is not taught in the Bible, it is something that man has came up with. I was taught that we have free will, however, when I read the Bible I find nothing to support such claim.

However, if the original humans did not have (some sort of) free will, then they could not have chosen anything other than to eat of the fruit of the forbidden tree. Which means they can be assigned no fault. Which means that “original sin” originated as God’s intention as part of creation. Which means that God intended, from the beginning, to create beings that would be (inescapably) condemned to eternal torment.

I find it really hard to worship such a God...