Born this way

@rajk999 said
I mentioned before that some sexuality [also innate] involves abuse of minors and sex with animals. Therefore if I were to point out that these activities are sinful then you will also call me prejudice. So your labelling me prejudiced, or uncivilized or even ungodly are all meaningless. Professed Christians should be promoting the word of God rather than succumbing to soc ...[text shortened]... at God prescribed. Many of the clergy are failures in this regard, and they will reap what they sow.

You are very keen to equate homosexuality with paedophilia and bestiality, but apart from being sexual activity there is really no similarity. We consider children and animals incapable of informed consent, and I think all right-thinking people will condemn these behaviours for this reason.

If you have gained the impression that I have implied that you are in any way uncivilised or ungodly, then I have not made my points with sufficient clarity and for that I apologise without reserve.

@avalanchethecat said
You are very keen to equate homosexuality with paedophilia and bestiality, but apart from being sexual activity there is really no similarity. We consider children and animals incapable of informed consent, and I think all right-thinking people will condemn these behaviours for this reason.

Im equating it only in one sense, and that is that they are all born this way. There is a long list of human failings which fall into the category of born this way. Im pretty sure I have a few of these failings. But that is not and never will be an excuse for doing it. Im speaking as a Christian. You speak as an atheist. I cannot speak any other way and neither can you. Hence the divide in the way we see these things.

@avalanchethecat said
If you have gained the impression that I have implied that you are in any way uncivilised or ungodly, then I have not made my points with sufficient clarity and for that I apologise without reserve.

You said : In my experience, limited as that may be, I have generally found this particular prejudice most loudly voiced by people whom one would scarcely consider civilized at all, let alone 'godly'.

I thought you were speaking about me. If you were not then forget it.

@rajk999 said
Im equating it only in one sense, and that is that they are all born this way. There is a long list of human failings which fall into the category of born this way. Im pretty sure I have a few of these failings. But that is not and never will be an excuse for doing it. Im speaking as a Christian. You speak as an atheist. I cannot speak any other way and neither can you. Hence the divide in the way we see these things.

But according to your belief system, they are born this way by god's grace, is that not correct? And if they wish to follow your belief system and reap the rewards in the hereafter, they must never, ever satisfy their sexual desires, even though they might meet and fall in love with someone of similar inclination and in doing so would bring no suffering whatsoever into the world?

@rajk999 said
You said : In my experience, limited as that may be, I have generally found this particular prejudice most loudly voiced by people whom one would scarcely consider civilized at all, let alone 'godly'.

I thought you were speaking about me. If you were not then forget it.

Oh gosh no, you seem to be quite civilised.

@avalanchethecat said
But according to your belief system, they are born this way by god's grace, is that not correct? And if they wish to follow your belief system and reap the rewards in the hereafter, they must never, ever satisfy their sexual desires, even though they might meet and fall in love with someone of similar inclination and in doing so would bring no suffering whatsoever into the world?

Jesus will judge these things. For the atheist they should not worry about what God says, obviously. For the Christian the wrong attitude is to go ahead and commit the sinful act over and over.

@avalanchethecat said
Oh gosh no, you seem to be quite civilised.

Trying to be sarcastic now?

@rajk999 said
Jesus will judge these things. For the atheist they should not worry about what God says, obviously. For the Christian the wrong attitude is to go ahead and commit the sinful act over and over.

But you don't find a problem in a religion which condemns a proportion of the populace to a life of misery or eternal damnation, depending on their strength of will to resist their god-given inclinations?

I wonder if you will honestly answer this question; do you feel that your negative attitudes towards homosexual men stem from your faith, or do you feel that these are consequent to your natural leanings given justification by your faith? Do you feel disgust when you consider homosexual practices?

@rajk999 said
Trying to be sarcastic now?

Not at all. The statement was sincere.

@rajk999 said
Im equating it only in one sense, and that is that they are all born this way. There is a long list of human failings which fall into the category of born this way. Im pretty sure I have a few of these failings. But that is not and never will be an excuse for doing it. Im speaking as a Christian. You speak as an atheist. I cannot speak any other way and neither can you. Hence the divide in the way we see these things.

Do you have any evidence that child molesters and sheep lovers are born that way?
There is evidence of a genetic link to homosexuality so they are literally born that way ergo it is a perfectly natural state of existence. Whereas child molestation is an act of sexual violence perpetrated on a child.
I think the question for those that believe in god is why did god create homosexuals but leave the devil ( nurture ) to create your other examples and given that, why would god punish homosexuals at all.
Spirituality by the way is not chained to the Bible anymore than politics is chained to communism or fascism. It’s simply one example of an attempt to draw a picture of a concept whilst blindfolded and holding the brush in your teeth.
P.s it’s 14:20 here and I haven’t touched a drop of alcohol.

@kevcvs57 said
Do you have any evidence that child molesters and sheep lovers are born that way?
There is evidence of a genetic link to homosexuality so they are literally born that way ergo it is a perfectly natural state of existence. Whereas child molestation is an act of sexual violence perpetrated on a child.
I think the question for those that believe in god is why did god create ...[text shortened]... d and holding the brush in your teeth.
P.s it’s 14:20 here and I haven’t touched a drop of alcohol.

All this is fluff and nebulas. Here is the point. Homosexuality was condemned in the bible thousands of years ago by God. Mankind only just discovering DNA technology cannot possibly change the laws of God, with the claim that they are "born this way". Gay people who are riding this horse thinking they have found al loophole are fools. Since when is that a valid excuse for sin, and why does the atheist care? The Christian who commits sin will stand before God and account for his sins. End of story.

@rajk999 said
All this is fluff and nebulas. Here is the point. Homosexuality was condemned in the bible thousands of years ago by God. Mankind only just discovering DNA technology cannot possibly change the laws of God, with the claim that they are "born this way". Gay people who are riding this horse thinking they have found al loophole are fools. Since when is that a valid excuse for ...[text shortened]... t care? The Christian who commits sin will stand before God and account for his sins. End of story.

I think you are dissembling now because you either cannot or do not wish to approach the point that has been made. Do you accept that sexuality in general and homosexuality specifically are innate? Do you not consider it curious that those born afflicted so (and I use the term advisedly in context) are condemned to a life of misery or eternal damnation based upon their strength of will to resist or otherwise the urges god has seen fit to inflict upon them?

@avalanchethecat said
I think you are dissembling now because you either cannot or do not wish to approach the point that has been made. Do you accept that sexuality in general and homosexuality specifically are innate? Do you not consider it curious that those born afflicted so (and I use the term advisedly in context) are condemned to a life of misery or eternal damnation based upon their strength of will to resist or otherwise the urges god has seen fit to inflict upon them?

I have admitted that they are innate. Have I not? All kinds of secuality is innate. All these deisres a put there by the creator, God who has also placed all other kinds of desires in all humans. I dont find anything curious at all. All people are flawed, some less than others. However God knows these things and as made the rules. Christians who follow the rules will not have an issue.

I dont see why you keep asking me the same question several times.

@rajk999 said
I have admitted that they are innate. Have I not? All kinds of secuality is innate. All these deisres a put there by the creator, God who has also placed all other kinds of desires in all humans. I dont find anything curious at all. All people are flawed, some less than others. However God knows these things and as made the rules. Christians who follow the rules will not have an issue.

I dont see why you keep asking me the same question several times.

I posed the question twice because I was rather hoping you might consider the issue and respond with reason, rather than with the banal "it's in the bible therefore god said it therefore it's true" answer which evidently is the only answer you're going to give.

Should I also refrain from asking you again whether you think your views stem from your beliefs or whether they too are innate and simply echoed by your beliefs?

@avalanchethecat said
I posed the question twice because I was rather hoping you might consider the issue and respond with reason, rather than with the banal "it's in the bible therefore god said it therefore it's true" answer which evidently is the only answer you're going to give.

Should I also refrain from asking you again whether you think your views stem from your beliefs or whether they too are innate and simply echoed by your beliefs?

So you are in fact asking me the same thing over and over, with the hope that by asking I will change my mind ? For real ?

Christians who say its ok to be gay are fools. Hope that clears it up.