C.S. Lewis, The Case for Christianity

-Removed-

What you don't seem to get is that our opinions can either be aligned with the truth or not. The truth of whether Jesus died on the cross or not does not depend on our opinions.

@dj2becker said
I never said making up your mind generates an absolute truth. Absolute truth exists whether we believe in it or not. If it were true that Jesus died on the cross no ones belief about the matter is going to change this truth. The same applies if it were true that Jesus did not die on the cross. The only thing we can do is examine the evidence but our belief does not change t ...[text shortened]... even though from your perspective it would be 'true' that you believe Jesus didn't die on the cross.

If you believe your personal opinion that Jesus was crucified and died and that he rose from the dead ~ and later ascended to heaven in order to forgive sins and "save" mankind ~ is "true", good for you. How does you having that opinion affect people who don't believe it?

@dj2becker said
What you don't seem to get is that our opinions can either be aligned with the truth or not. The truth of whether Jesus died on the cross or not does not depend on our opinions.

If you believe that yours and divegeester's opinions about Jesus are aligned with the truth, so what? Isn't that enough for you? You have your faith. You are certain it is aligned with the truth. You and divegeester share that opinion about Jesus. What is the outstanding issue?

@dj2becker said
The only thing we can do is examine the evidence but our belief does not change the reality of what happened.

As you said before, we need to examine the evidence and make up our own minds. You are perfectly entitled to claim that your opinion is true and corresponds to the reality of what happened.

@dj2becker said
What you don't seem to get is that our opinions can either be aligned with the truth or not. The truth of whether Jesus died on the cross or not does not depend on our opinions.

Why were you using an account called mariekeXIV to post on this forum?

@fmf said
What's this with you posting using an account called mariekeXIV?

Last moved 2499 days 9 hours and 8 minutes ago

Correction: Last moved 3,405 days 18 hours and 7 minutes ago.

And all of a sudden, you used this account to answer my post?

@fmf said
If you believe your personal opinion that Jesus was crucified and died and that he rose from the dead ~ and later ascended to heaven in order to forgive sins and "save" mankind ~ is "true", good for you. How does you having that opinion affect people who don't believe it?

If it is true it affects everyone whether they believe it or not. I'm sure as an ex-believer you would know why that is.

@fmf said
If you believe that yours and divegeester's opinions about Jesus are aligned with the truth, so what? Isn't that enough for you? You have your faith. You are certain it is aligned with the truth. You and divegeester share that opinion about Jesus. What is the outstanding issue?

The issue is that if it is true, it affects everyone whether they believe in it or not. I understand why you would fail to see this.

@fmf said
As you said before, we need to examine the evidence and make up our own minds. You are perfectly entitled to claim that your opinion is true and corresponds to the reality of what happened.

If it were true and you happened to believe it wasn't you would be believing an untruth. Likewise if it were not true and I believed it was, I would be believing an untruth.

@dj2becker said
If it is true it affects everyone whether they believe it or not. I'm sure as an ex-believer you would know why that is.

You are free to speculate as much as you want about the "absolute truth" of supernatural matters. I have no reason to believe that anything YOU believe "affects everyone". You give me no credible reason to act upon any of the religious claims you make.

Your "If it is true it affects everyone whether they believe it or not" riff is a dud because it could be used to bolster ANY superstitious ideology or warning or prediction of any religion.

@dj2becker said
The issue is that if it is true, it affects everyone whether they believe in it or not. I understand why you would fail to see this.

I will leave it to you to speculate about "if it is true" et.s etc. and then you should act as you see fit based on whatever conclusion you reach.

@fmf said
You are free to speculate as much as you want about the "absolute truth" of supernatural matters. I have no reason to believe that anything YOU believe "affects everyone". You give me no credible reason to act upon any of the religious claims you make.

Your "If it is true it affects everyone whether they believe it or not" riff is a dud because it could be used to bolster ANY superstitious ideology or warning or prediction of any religion.

I am not using this to bolster any claims, I am merely discussing the nature of truth. Obviously anyone can make a truth claim, it is up to you to analyse the evidence and make up your own mind. No one can do that for you.

@dj2becker said
If it were true and you happened to believe it wasn't you would be believing an untruth.

It doesn't matter to me if you think what I believe is an "untruth".