1. Standard memberRajk999
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    05 Sep '14 14:28
    It seems that John is saying that it is indeed likely.

    For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist... He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed. (2 John 1:7-10KJV)

    Here John states two ways of knowing who is a deceiver and an antichrist:

    1. those that say Christ did not come in the flesh, or
    2. those who do not bring [preach/teach/believe in] the doctrine of Christ.

    No 1 seems easy to spot. A man says Christ never came or never existed, no such person, then I guess he can qualify.

    No 2 is more hidden and deceptive. Like the wolves in sheeps clothing these Christians profess to know Christ but in their doctrine they deny Him. They do not bring the doctrine of Christ of brotherly love, charity and goodworks. The do not teach the commandments of Christ. They say things like 'accept Christ with your mouth and you will be saved and saved eternally. They also condemn the following of Christ commandments as 'works salvation', as 'keeping the law'. or as unecessary, and an insult to Christ sacrifice. They therefore actively discourage people from following the commandments Christ gave.

    John further explains:

    2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

    The doctrine of Christ is an essential element in anyones salvation. If you do not believe it or teach it, then chances are that Christ may consider you a deceiver or an antichrist.
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    06 Sep '14 08:37
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    It seems that John is saying that it is indeed likely.

    [i]For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist... He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not int ...[text shortened]... lieve it or teach it, then chances are that Christ may consider you a deceiver or an antichrist.
    Neither group you talk about sound "Christian"; just people thinking they are. I think you are clutching at a straw here to support your "works" view of Christianity.
  3. Standard memberredbadger
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    06 Sep '14 11:06
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    It seems that John is saying that it is indeed likely.

    [i]For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist... He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not int ...[text shortened]... lieve it or teach it, then chances are that Christ may consider you a deceiver or an antichrist.
    tosh
  4. Standard memberRajk999
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    06 Sep '14 11:35
    Originally posted by redbadger
    tosh
    What John says is 'tosh'? What exactly is tosh? Im not from your part of the world sorry.
  5. Standard memberRajk999
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    06 Sep '14 11:36
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Neither group you talk about sound "Christian"; just people thinking they are. I think you are clutching at a straw here to support your "works" view of Christianity.
    Anything more substantial than that floating around in your head that you want to share or is that the best you can do?
  6. Standard memberredbadger
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    06 Sep '14 11:38
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    What John says is 'tosh'? What exactly is tosh? Im not from your part of the world sorry.
    your pithy interpretation of it is bulldust
  7. Standard memberRajk999
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    06 Sep '14 11:46
    Originally posted by redbadger
    your pithy interpretation of it is bulldust
    Well clearly you dont like my interpretation. Your hostile comment leads me to think that you are a Christian who dont like the doctrine of Christ ie brotherly love, good works and following of commandments.

    However all that is beside the point. The point is do you have a comment of the passage by John pertaining to antichrist?
  8. Standard memberredbadger
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    06 Sep '14 14:16
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Well clearly you dont like my interpretation. Your hostile comment leads me to think that you are a Christian who dont like the doctrine of Christ ie brotherly love, good works and following of commandments.

    However all that is beside the point. The point is do you have a comment of the passage by John pertaining to antichrist?
    rajk666
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    06 Sep '14 17:041 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Anything more substantial than that floating around in your head that you want to share or is that the best you can do?
    Not really, the whole idea of a Christian being the antichrist is an oxymoron in my opinion. Obviously, if you are an/the antichrist you cannot be a Christian.
  10. Standard memberRajk999
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    06 Sep '14 17:41
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Not really, the whole idea of a Christian being the antichrist is an oxymoron in my opinion. Obviously, if you are an/the antichrist you cannot be a Christian.
    I guess thats like staunch Roman Catholics saying that the whole idea of RC priests also being child-molesters is an oxymoron? Therefore it cannot happen? Yep .. makes sense

    Clearly you are into 'labels' and 'titles'. Nowadays, A Christian by definition is one who professes to be such. There are about 2.5 billion I think of them. John is not interested in labels and titles but instead identified two types of people:

    1. those who bring with them, abideth in, or preach the doctrine of Christ. of brotherly love and good works.
    2. those who do not, ie they trangresseth, they do not know God - they are deceivers and antichrist.

    These days many claim to be Christian but they also speaks evil of the doctrine of Christ and refer to it as
    - works righteousness
    - law keeping
    - self-righteousness
    - hypocritical
    - trying to earn ones salvation
    - insulting to Christ death and resurrection.
    The sum of all of that is in effect preaching that good works are a sin, and one should resist good works and keeping of Christ commandments.

    Which group are you in?

    Me? Im with Christ and the doctrine of Christ.
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    06 Sep '14 17:51
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Clearly you are into 'labels' and 'titles'...

    ...Which group are you in?...
    Clearly you are into "groups".
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    06 Sep '14 18:10
    If therefore you are asking "can someone claiming to be a Christian be the antichrist?" Then of course the answer is yes.
  13. Standard memberRajk999
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    06 Sep '14 18:27
    Originally posted by divegeester
    If therefore you are asking "can someone claiming to be a Christian be the antichrist?" Then of course the answer is yes.
    Ok .. that was almost like pulling teeth. Now do you have a comment on the reference from John regarding the doctrine of Christ? Or would you rather decline comment on the grounds that it might incriminate you?
  14. Standard memberRajk999
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    06 Sep '14 18:42
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Clearly you are into "groups".
    Christ as well.
    - Sheep and Goats
    - Wheat and Tares
    - Righteous and Unrighteous
    - Life and Death.
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    06 Sep '14 19:15
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Christ as well.
    - Sheep and Goats
    - Wheat and Tares
    - Righteous and Unrighteous
    - Life and Death.
    Groups with labels. What's your point.
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