1. Standard membersonship
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    27 Oct '18 20:081 edit
    I have been struck that on SOME limited occasions, as God called for judgment, He told His people - They should refrain in this instance from pity.

    Deuteronomy 19:20,21

    [ "And those who remain will hear and will fear and will never again do anything like this evil thing in your midst.

    And your eye shall not pity: a life for a life, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a hand for a hand, a foot for a foot."


    And again in Deut. 19:12,13

    "Then the elders of his city shall send men and take him from there and deliver him into the hand of the avenger of blood, so that he may die.

    Your eye shall not pity him, but you shall remove the guilt of innocent blood from Israel that it may go well with you."


    The point of this is NOT proving God is always without pity. Psalm 136 proclaims over and over again that His living kindness (or mercy) endures forever.

    The point is - Are there INSTANCES in the Bible when pity was not appropriate and against God's righteous judgment?

    My answer would be - apparently there were some judgments without pity.
  2. Standard membersonship
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    27 Oct '18 20:183 edits
    I think any attempt to portray God as always without mercy in the Bible is bound to fail.

    However, an attempt to portray God as never judging demanding that His people withhold pity at the sight, will also fail.

    There are many acts of divine judgement in the Bible.
    There are many that are tempered with His restraint and mercy.

    There are also a few in which He commanded "Your eye shall not pity" . The Israelites who came out of many miraculous proofs of God's existence seemed under a stricter code at times.

    Ie, "You are suppose to know. You are without excuse in this matter. Violation will be withing pity here because AWARENESS on your part is so extensive. "

    Are there instances like this among the other instances of divine judgment in the Bible ? (See Deut. 19:21; 19:13).
  3. Standard membersonship
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    27 Oct '18 20:25
    There is a typo in my title to this thread.
    It was intended to read -

    Can Pity Ever [ Be ] Against God ?

    Sloppily I left out the word "Be".
  4. Devonshire
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    27 Oct '18 20:25
    @sonship said
    I think any attempt to portray God as always without mercy in the Bible is bound to fail.
    Who has ever said this?

    Lol.
  5. Standard membersonship
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    27 Oct '18 20:31
    @divegeester

    Who has ever said this?

    Lol.


    I don't know why you laugh.
    Some new atheists have come close to accusing God of always being something like the most evil and undesirable character.

    Richard Dawkins - No good traits to the God in the Bible
    Sam Harris - Nearly NO good traits to God's character.
    Christopher Hitchens - Nearly NO positive character traits to the God of the Bible.

    Your hearty laughter seems odd or ill-informed.

    It is also a bit off the point. Why not take on the central concept of the OP instead. Who are you waiting for ?

    Waiting for someone ??
  6. Standard membersonship
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    27 Oct '18 20:362 edits
    Dive loves Psalm 136 because it stresses God's everlasting mercy. I love the Psalm 136 too! I ALWAYS have.

    But I have to take the TOTAL Scripture. I have to take what I like with what I may not like that much.

    There are, as I have pointed out, exceptions in God's judging. He told the witnesses of this justice that in this instance their eye was not to pity.

    Can our pity then at some time be contrary to God's will ?

    More importantly, Can God's enemy, Satan EVER gain advantage over man by appealing to human PITY in rebellion to God ?

    I think the sad answer has to be YES. At times the Devil could lead us astray from God by means of our human pity.

    I said ... "At times".
  7. Devonshire
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    27 Oct '18 21:39
    You believe that the eternally merciful Jesus will be eternally burning people alive for eternity. It’s nonsensical, morally incoherent and an insult to the gospel.
  8. Standard membersonship
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    27 Oct '18 21:441 edit
    @divegeester

    You believe that the eternally merciful Jesus will be eternally burning people alive for eternity. It’s nonsensical, morally incoherent and an insult to the gospel.


    So you do not believe that MERCY could ever be UNJUST?

    Your eye shall not pity were not words I liked and wrote into the Bible.

    Each and EVERY instance of judgment is not accompanied with these words. But there are instances when they were uttered by God.

    Your accusation against me and others (and against God indirectly) is that we see that sometimes FORGIVENESS may be unrighteous.

    Do you think that it is possible that MERCY and FORGIVENESS at SOME times might further encourage the evil doer to buckle down and do even MORE evil ?

    Can this happen ?
    Is this impossible to happen, such that there is no such thing as unrighteous forgiveness?
  9. Devonshire
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    27 Oct '18 21:482 edits
    @sonship said
    @divegeester

    You believe that the eternally merciful Jesus will be eternally burning people alive for eternity. It’s nonsensical, morally incoherent and an insult to the gospel.


    So you do not believe that MERCY could ever be UNJUST?

    Your eye shall not pity were not words I liked and wrote into the Bible.

    Each and EVERY instance of judgme ...[text shortened]... pen ?
    Is this impossible to happen, such that there is no such thing as unrighteous forgiveness?
    You’re entitled to believe what you want.
    You know what I believe and why I believe it.
    I’m not interested in your convoluted use of scripture to justify your belief.
    It’s enough that you know why I believe what I do.
  10. Standard membersonship
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    27 Oct '18 21:591 edit
    Divegeester, the Psalm 136, about God's lovingkindness being forever, includes this verse 24

    Who remembers us in our low estate, For His loving kindness is forever;

    And rescued us from our adversaries, For His loving kindness is forever."


    If God refused to judge some of these ADVERSARIES of His people could He say that they were rescued and His loving kindness towards them is forever?

    If God was LENIENT towards their enemies He might not be able to show them His everlasting mercy. Right ?

    Don't you SEE that His loving kindness being forever INCLUDED Him striking down some of His people's enemies ?

    "To Him who marched His people through the wilderness, For His loving kindness is forever.

    To Him who struck great kings,
    For His lovingkindness is forever.

    And SLEW majestic kings,
    For His lovingkidness is forever,

    Sihon the king of the Amorites,
    For His lovingkindness is forever.

    And Og the king of Bashan,
    For His lovingkindness is forever." (see verses 16-20)


    "His livingkindness ... forever" to Israel INCLUDED the need to vanquish some of the enemies of God's people. Didn't it?
  11. Standard membersonship
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    27 Oct '18 22:041 edit
    @divegeester


    You know what I believe and why I believe it.
    I’m not interested in your convoluted use of scripture to justify your belief.


    You're welcomed to believe as you want.

    But Psalm 136 is hardly long and convoluted. And in that Psalm on God's mercy His JUDGMENT of Pharoah is an element of His mercy towards His people.

    Sorry.

    "And shook off Paroah and his force into the Red Sea,
    For His livingkidness is forever." (v.15)


    The convolution comes from you trying to excise eternal judgment from the oracles of God.
  12. Devonshire
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    27 Oct '18 22:081 edit
    @sonship said
    @divegeester
    You're welcomed to believe as you want.
    Thanks, I know.

    Make a long and detailed argument about how Jesus torturing billions of people for ever and ever is his perfect justice.

    You never know I might believe it!
  13. Standard membersonship
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    27 Oct '18 22:192 edits
    @divegeester

    Make a long and detailed argument about how Jesus torturing billions of people for ever and ever is his perfect justice.


    I would not do that. I would only point out that Luke 12:4,5 are instructions from the mouth of Jesus.

    "Your Jesus tortures" "Your Jesus is sadistic" "Your Jesus is a monster" are the special effects you need to keep the idolatry of your human pity enshrined.

    I think you have an idol which means more to you then Christ, just about.

    "True and righteous our His judgments" is my belief (Rev. 19:2)
  14. Devonshire
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    27 Oct '18 23:191 edit
    @sonship said
    "True and righteous our His judgments" is my belief (Rev. 19:2)
    The problem you have in here sonship is that you are speaking to a tiny group of people who either already subscribe to your errors, or are atheists, or like suzianne and myself think you are just wrong. I also think you are an error susceptible sectist. Your quoting of scripture is empty rhetoric.
  15. Standard membersonship
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    27 Oct '18 23:46
    @divegeester
    Well, there's a lot in the Bible. And not realizing its full scope can lead to distortions.

    I think I would like to see what angles some others might have on the OP.
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