1. colchester
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    14 Apr '06 19:44
    Well im not an atheist but i dont follow religion and i dont understand what I should do once i do leave this world what will happen will i be shunned because i dont follow religion? i dont understand what could be a explanation for suffering. I dont understand how we were brought to were we are today.
    but then again i am only 15 so mayb this is just my age showing...
    does anyone understand what I mean?
  2. Forgotten
    Joined
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    14 Apr '06 19:561 edit
    Originally posted by blk rage
    Well im not an atheist but i dont follow religion and i dont understand what I should do once i do leave this world what will happen will i be shunned because i dont follow religion? i dont understand what could be a explanation for suffering. I dont understand how we were brought to were we are today.
    but then again i am only 15 so mayb this is just my age showing...
    does anyone understand what I mean?
    Yes, I understand,You are going to hell,so you may as well worship Satan like the rest of us.
  3. Mississauga, Ontario
    Joined
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    14 Apr '06 20:05
    Originally posted by blk rage
    Well im not an atheist but i dont follow religion and i dont understand what I should do once i do leave this world what will happen will i be shunned because i dont follow religion? i dont understand what could be a explanation for suffering. I dont understand how we were brought to were we are today.
    but then again i am only 15 so mayb this is just my age showing...
    does anyone understand what I mean?
    Go to your local public library. You will find there many books on philosophy.

    I know it's not what you think you need, but let me assure you that you are better off starting with that.

    Frued, Jung, Hume, Hegel, Wittgenstien, Hiedegger, Nietzsche, Skinner, St. Augustine, Sartre, Kant, Moore, Locke, Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, Machiavelli,... and there might just be a dozen I'm forgetting.

    Know these men and what they have said.

    After this, when you feel sufficiently well equipped, buy a few books regarding the three abrahamic religions (preferrably one's recommended by a scholar of the respective religion), the vedas, and almost anything that you can find buddhism.

    Then it would certainly do you well to read the history of the world, irrespective of religion.

    There is no shortcut. Anyone who says as much is a bloody fool.
  4. Gangster Land
    Joined
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    14 Apr '06 20:09
    Originally posted by blk rage
    Well im not an atheist but i dont follow religion and i dont understand what I should do once i do leave this world what will happen will i be shunned because i dont follow religion? i dont understand what could be a explanation for suffering. I dont understand how we were brought to were we are today.
    but then again i am only 15 so mayb this is just my age showing...
    does anyone understand what I mean?
    First of all don't look here for an answer to your questions. Everyone has an ax to grind. Second, read a lot of books by a variety of authors with a variety of points of view. Finally, no matter what you learn never decide you have found the "answer" or the "truth" because that is exactly the attitude that will prevent you from finding either.

    If a particular creed or religion does not lead directly to more questions then you either do not know enough about it or it is hogwash.

    TheSkipper
  5. Standard membertelerion
    True X X Xian
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    14 Apr '06 20:18
    Originally posted by Tetsujin
    Go to your local public library. You will find there many books on philosophy.

    I know it's not what you think you need, but let me assure you that you are better off starting with that.

    Frued, Jung, Hume, Hegel, Wittgenstien, Hiedegger, Nietzsche, Skinner, St. Augustine, Sartre, Kant, Moore, Locke, Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, Machiavelli,... and there ...[text shortened]... irrespective of religion.

    There is no shortcut. Anyone who says as much is a bloody fool.
    Is it cheating to taint his mind with Bertrand Russell before he reads religion?
  6. Joined
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    14 Apr '06 21:135 edits
    Originally posted by blk rage
    Well im not an atheist but i dont follow religion and i dont understand what I should do once i do leave this world what will happen will i be shunned because i dont follow religion? i dont understand what could be a explanation for suffering. I dont understand how we were brought to were we are today.
    but then again i am only 15 so mayb this is just my age showing...
    does anyone understand what I mean?
    And now for the Christian perspective. Eeeegaddss!!! Not the christian perspective!!!! First you must read everything under the sun before reading about the Christian perspective as a last resort!!!!!!

    From the Christian perspective your question of why we suffer revolves around sin. The after effects of sin is why we suffer. Look at Christ. He never sinned but suffered because of our sin. Sin is destructive force that makes not only the sinner to suffer, but also those who are innocent that interact with the sinner. Problem is, is that we are all sinners. This is why the world is in the state its in and why Christ came into the world. It was to take away our sins from his sight so that we may reconnect with him once again. Through our faith in him and his sacrifice, our spiritual man becomes "quickened" and alive to live forever. The Bible says that if we confess with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe God raised him from the dead we will be saved.

    So what then is sin? Sin is simply disobeying the #1 commandment in the Bible. That commandment is to love the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind and love your neighbor as yourself. Sin is simply an indivuals choice not to walk in love with others. This does not mean you do not love, rather, it means you do not always choose to love. If you choose to walk in love you will keep all of God's commandments without even trying. You show your love for God by doing what you know pleases him. It is much like trying to please someone you love. It may be difficult at times but is not done grudgingly and is not burdensome.

    For me the term religion has somewhat of a negative connotation. The term religion for me has more to do with what man says you must do to connect with God than what God says you must do to connect with him. Just remember that God has given us his word via the Bible and his word says me must love. That even means loving our enemies. Christianity is all about relationship and love. Love is what makes us tick. If it were not for love your life would be 100% meaningless and void of purpose. I have read some of the suggested readings that others have offered to you to read. Many have good insights as to the nature of the sinful hearts of men and how some use religion to control you and do their bidding. I would not even discourage you from reading them if you choose. However, out of all the philosophers I have read, and all the religious perspectives I have encountered, nothing compares to the love message of Christ. It is true that most religions speak of God as a God of love. It is also true that everyone loves to varying degrees. This is because we were created by a God of love. It is innate and comes naturally to us but is hindered by our sinful self serving nature. There is one thing to consider, however. Who else said to love your enemies and do good to them that despitfully use you? It is the completion of the love message of God. It is a supernatural type of love that requires God's power to exist.

    I guess it all comes down to relevance really. What is most important to you? I would venture a guess it has to do with what or who you love. If so, you may want to walk down the road that pursues the love message rather than a road that is simply a pursuit of head knowledge and a religion of endless meaningless traditions. I in no way negate the benefit of knowledge and learning. However, I would make my primary focus my relationships. Those relationships being with the ones I love and the relationship with my creator. Just my 2 cents.



    OK, fellas, let the Christian bashing comense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  7. Mississauga, Ontario
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    14 Apr '06 21:46
    Originally posted by telerion
    Is it cheating to taint his mind with Bertrand Russell before he reads religion?
    I knew I forgot a few...

    It's up to him.

    I don't this guy, or what he's like.
  8. Mississauga, Ontario
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    14 Apr '06 21:49
    Originally posted by whodey
    And now for the Christian perspective. Eeeegaddss!!! Not the christian perspective!!!! First you must read everything under the sun before reading about the Christian perspective as a last resort!!!!!!
    While the humor is appreciated, shoving stuff in his face does not help at all.

    Let him find his path, and offer guidance if he seeks it.
  9. London
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    14 Apr '06 22:00
    Originally posted by telerion
    Is it cheating to taint his mind with Bertrand Russell before he reads religion?
    As far as Philosophy of Religion is concerned, Russell's pretty much rehashing Hume and Locke - so Tetsuijin's list should be alright.

    I would recommend adding St. Thomas Aquinas to the list though.
  10. Joined
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    15 Apr '06 00:052 edits
    Originally posted by blk rage
    i dont understand ... i dont understand ... I dont understand ...
    It is often good for one to have some contempt for his own ignorance. Keep in mind, though, that these are some difficult questions. Strive to cultivate justified belief. I would add Camus to the reading list. Descartes, too.
  11. Standard memberfrogstomp
    Bruno's Ghost
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    15 Apr '06 00:11
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    As far as Philosophy of Religion is concerned, Russell's pretty much rehashing Hume and Locke - so Tetsuijin's list should be alright.

    I would recommend adding St. Thomas Aquinas to the list though.
    "Those who know do not speak, those who speak, do not know"
  12. London
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    15 Apr '06 00:18
    Originally posted by frogstomp
    "Those who know do not speak, those who speak, do not know"
    Some Gnostic?
  13. Mississauga, Ontario
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    15 Apr '06 03:19
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    Some Gnostic?
    I don't think that's what he's trying to say.

    Consider the fact that I don't shove my religion in anyone else's face. I might (hope to) be considered as someone who knows.

    In any case, people say things like that all the time. It's not particularly clever. As for insight, that depends on whom it is said by, and who reads into it.

    Relatively popular intellectualls say these sort of things all the time. It's a matter of being concise and playing with the heads of lesser indivudals I think (no offense to you).

    Einstien comes to mind, with something like:

    As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.


    Those who care to know just smirk and move on.
  14. Territories Unknown
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    15 Apr '06 03:42
    Originally posted by blk rage
    Well im not an atheist but i dont follow religion and i dont understand what I should do once i do leave this world what will happen will i be shunned because i dont follow religion? i dont understand what could be a explanation for suffering. I dont understand how we were brought to were we are today.
    but then again i am only 15 so mayb this is just my age showing...
    does anyone understand what I mean?
    Just read the stuff that I have posted here, kid, and you'll be just fine. Except for the sarcastic stuff. Or, the stuff where I make fun of ignorant atheists who think they are thinking.

    The other stuff, however, will serve you well. Memorize my words (feel free to categorize them into books, and then further decimate them into chapters and verses, for ease of organization and future reference), and--- most importantly--- live by them daily. Don't waste your time reading a mountain of crap that can be boiled down to a few farts, as what Tet offered. My sage words of wisdom will serve you well.
  15. Argentina
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    15 Apr '06 03:421 edit
    Originally posted by frogstomp
    "Those who know do not speak, those who speak, do not know"
    Chi sa non fa,
    chi fa non sa.
    chi po non vo,
    chi vo non po...

    ... e cosi il mondo va.

    EDIT:
    My non-subs rec, frog.
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