Originally posted by twhiteheadNone of those people who have been disenfranchised said they don't believe xells have DNA; they simply said that (horrors!) evolution may--MAY--not be the only legitimate theory of how life progressed on this planet. That Intelligent Design MIGHT be another possibility, and couldn't we just question it? Even? Just an ITTY NITTY bit? Isn't that what science is about--questioning things? Einstein himself said "The important thing is to NEVER stop questioning."
We you cant really expect to get a job in Biology if you state in your c.v. that you don't believe that cells have DNA in them. If thats unfair then tough. About half of all scientific study going on today is the study of things that Young Earth Creationists claim either does not exist or that we have got totally wrong. Why would they even want a job in a ...[text shortened]... st Christians', you are actually supporting my claim that said Christians are in a minority.
Originally posted by PinkFloydYou misunderstand ID. ID claims to have mathematical proof that life CAN NOT come to be without intelligent intervention. Their proofs are flawed and that's why ID is not taken seriously.
None of those people who have been disenfranchised said they don't believe xells have DNA; they simply said that (horrors!) evolution may--MAY--not be the only legitimate theory of how life progressed on this planet. That Intelligent Design MIGHT be another possibility, and couldn't we just question it? Even? Just an ITTY NITTY bit? Isn't that what sci ...[text shortened]... stioning things? Einstein himself said "The important thing is to NEVER stop questioning."
Originally posted by TheSkipperI wouldn't say we're persecuted that much either. Not yet. They are trying though.
Oh, sweet Jesus, cry me a river. In the United States we have had 43 christian presidents...IN A ROW! Churches are allowed to do damn near whatever they please without paying a cent in taxes. We even have to violate our own constitution by not providing homosexuals with equal protection under the law, just to make you people happy. Roughly 80% of the p ...[text shortened]... ica. Try coming over to my side of the fence sometime (athiest), I'll show you persecuted!
Originally posted by PinkFloydSo why wasn't Einstein disenfranchised? He too looked for intelligent design, so have many scientists throughout the ages. The only ones who get disenfranchised are the ones who falsify their results or use other underhanded means to try and support their claims.
None of those people who have been disenfranchised said they don't believe xells have DNA; they simply said that (horrors!) evolution may--MAY--not be the only legitimate theory of how life progressed on this planet. That Intelligent Design MIGHT be another possibility, and couldn't we just question it? Even? Just an ITTY NITTY bit? Isn't that what sci ...[text shortened]... stioning things? Einstein himself said "The important thing is to NEVER stop questioning."
Ben Stein's Expelled movie is packed full of lies. Why should anyone take it seriously?
Originally posted by twhiteheadSpecify please. What lies? Which person(s) interviewed did NOT really lose their job because by suggesting ID just MIGHT deserve further study? And Einstein wasn't disenfranchised--you are right. He had too much clout. But I've heard plenty of mocking statements made by hawking and others of his ilk who love to portray the man as a quaint, provincial little genius who couldn't let go of his belief in God. Disenfranchised? No. Mocked and humiliated by bullies? You betcha.
So why wasn't Einstein disenfranchised? He too looked for intelligent design, so have many scientists throughout the ages. The only ones who get disenfranchised are the ones who falsify their results or use other underhanded means to try and support their claims.
Ben Stein's Expelled movie is packed full of lies. Why should anyone take it seriously?
Originally posted by PinkFloydStephen Hawking humiliated Einstein? When did Einstein complain about being humiliated?
Mocked and humiliated by bullies? You betcha.
I haven't heard anything but actual respect for his accomplishments and well, justified criticism for his failures to acknowledge the actual evidence for things like quantum mechanics.
As for the people who didn't actually lose their jobs as desribed in expelled - the exposed site goes through that. For example Richard Sternberg, it was claimed lost his job and was ruined, but it seems he had given his resignation for the job he "lost" BEFORE he committed his supposed "crime". Yup..bullied.
Originally posted by PinkFloydI am afraid I do not have the time, money or interest to go to the US and interview the people in question. So the best I can do is rely on third party information such as:
Specify please. What lies? Which person(s) interviewed did NOT really lose their job because by suggesting ID just MIGHT deserve further study? And Einstein wasn't disenfranchised--you are right. He had too much clout. But I've heard plenty of mocking statements made by hawking and others of his ilk who love to portray the man as a quaint, provincial ...[text shortened]... of his belief in God. Disenfranchised? No. Mocked and humiliated by bullies? You betcha.
www.expelledexposed.com
In fact I don't even have access to the movie. ID is a mostly American phenomena so the movie probably wont circulate here in SA.
But honestly I do not believe that anyone would loose their job for "suggesting that ID just MIGHT deserve further study", and if that is their claim in the movie I would in fact take such claims as concrete proof that they are liars.
Also it must be noted that the ID that I hear most about that some people were pushing to get taught in schools, definitely does not deserve further study as it was conclusively shown to be a bunch of lies. If someone wants to introduce some new ideas and has some sort of evidence to back them up or at least a methodology for going about looking for evidence then I don't think the scientific community would have any objections.