1. Standard memberapathist
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    28 Aug '16 13:17
    Paganism is very eclectic. Just sharing my view here. The idea of the circle is that sanctuary is mental, the chalk or salt is by choice, all that's needed is determine your purpose and create a safe place to focus on that purpose for a while and then handle what comes next. Maybe an example:

    I deal with anxiety. You worry too much, dad. Heard that alot. So, first day new job, I want to do well of course, but my monkey brain is flighting. So I hold the intention, the purpose, the desire to do well, and then I cast the circle. Totally mental, no one else knows anything just happened, though I use a tiny deosil right fist movement.

    I think muh brain is being trained, all the various hemispheres, lobes, networks of neurons, I think they get notified to tune in, get on the same page.

    I try, within the circle, to fill with creative visualizations of my desired outcomes, to saturate with positive affirmations, to focus my attention on fulfilling my desires here. Not about what steps to take, but about being ready for whatever steps I should take.

    So, I have a point, I build the circle, and then I fall hard into here and now, really good meditation, I struggle to remember the purpose. In my mind, psychological, energy builds toward that purpose. Fingers and toes tingle, lol. It is like something real. Then release that energy widdershins L hand, it feels like I am being heard. I am quick and strong and smart and wise.

    Normal people, the successful ones, they do this already i guess without the drama.

    "I can do this". Tell me you've never said that to yourself.
  2. Hmmm . . .
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    28 Aug '16 22:55
    Originally posted by apathist
    Paganism is very eclectic. Just sharing my view here. The idea of the circle is that sanctuary is mental, the chalk or salt is by choice, all that's needed is determine your purpose and create a safe place to focus on that purpose for a while and then handle what comes next. Maybe an example:

    I deal with anxiety. You worry too much, dad. Heard that alot. ...[text shortened]... eady i guess without the drama.

    "I can do this". Tell me you've never said that to yourself.
    Good for you. I don’t know what “normal” people do—but I would consider the discovery of such a multi-tiered practice to be a gift, not a crutch.

    Mine are different: involve some whole-body breathing, certain Qigong gestures, mantra-like verbalizations, some visualization—and, at the moment, Taiko drumming. No need to analyze too much; no need to “believe” any particular doctrine(s) behind the symbols (or rather, perhaps, no need to cling to this or that particular belief—allowing meaning to be fluid).

    “Spirituality” (for lack of a better word)—within or without a (or any) particular religious expression—can have that sense of openness, rather than closedness. In fact, the more common understanding of “faith” in some eastern religions has to do with openness to possibility, rather than holding on to anything (other than the possibility of possibility?).

    Thanks for the post. Be well.
  3. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    28 Aug '16 23:27
    Originally posted by apathist
    Paganism is very eclectic. Just sharing my view here. The idea of the circle is that sanctuary is mental, the chalk or salt is by choice, all that's needed is determine your purpose and create a safe place to focus on that purpose for a while and then handle what comes next. Maybe an example:

    I deal with anxiety. You worry too much, dad. Heard that alot. ...[text shortened]... eady i guess without the drama.

    "I can do this". Tell me you've never said that to yourself.
    wow, some real spirituality in the op, how refreshing.

    Clearly you are on some path there, dude. I could relate to much of what you're saying here. It is difficult to explain this stuff.

    I used to try to open these portals, visualizing a circle usually. just experimenting . I did get some weird results. And whether there was something more or it was just all in my mind I found this practice very helpful with most other mental activities. (more focussed in general,etc. )
  4. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    28 Aug '16 23:32
    Originally posted by vistesd
    Good for you. I don’t know what “normal” people do—but I would consider the discovery of such a multi-tiered practice to be a gift, not a crutch.

    Mine are different: involve some whole-body breathing, certain Qigong gestures, mantra-like verbalizations, some visualization—and, at the moment, Taiko drumming. No need to analyze too much; no need to “beli ...[text shortened]... on to anything (other than the possibility of possibility?).

    Thanks for the post. Be well.
    Hey dude 🙂

    "no need to "believe" ". I find if you are on the right path you just take information on board, at times re-adjusting your worldview. Experientially however I find no need to confirm or affirm any so-called beliefs that I have been told I definately have (told by someone on this forum)
  5. Hmmm . . .
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    28 Aug '16 23:40
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    Hey dude 🙂

    "no need to "believe" ". I find if you are on the right path you just take information on board, at times re-adjusting your worldview. Experientially however I find no need to confirm or affirm any so-called beliefs that I have been told I definately have (told by someone on this forum)
    Hey, yourself. 🙂
  6. Standard memberapathist
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    29 Aug '16 02:51
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    Hey dude 🙂

    "no need to "believe" ". I find if you are on the right path you just take information on board, at times re-adjusting your worldview. Experientially however I find no need to confirm or affirm any so-called beliefs that I have been told I definately have (told by someone on this forum)
    I have no idea much what bob marley is about but I love him.
  7. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    29 Aug '16 22:05
    Originally posted by apathist
    I have no idea much what b

    ob marley is about but I love him.
    Rastafarian...
  8. Standard memberfinnegan
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    30 Aug '16 01:002 edits
    Originally posted by apathist
    Paganism is very eclectic. Just sharing my view here. The idea of the circle is that sanctuary is mental, the chalk or salt is by choice, all that's needed is determine your purpose and create a safe place to focus on that purpose for a while and then handle what comes next. Maybe an example:

    I deal with anxiety. You worry too much, dad. Heard that alot. ...[text shortened]... eady i guess without the drama.

    "I can do this". Tell me you've never said that to yourself.
    This sounds more like psychotherapy than "spirituality" to me. NLP for example has the same technique of standing in a circle and visualising positive future outcomes.

    http://www.nlp-therapy.co.uk/circle-of-excellence-nlp-technique/

    You can apply similar techniques to chess - I like this guy's chess videos and was amused to find this from him. it is not bad:

    YouTube&feature=player_embedded


    Your references to anxiety and the idea of a safe place are telling.

    There is nothing odd in the overlap of religious practices and psychotherapy. Buddhist psychology is excellent in my opinion.

    But psychology is not spiritual and the ability to alleviate anxiety is a skill, something we can learn and practice, for which mystical explanations are not required.
  9. Standard memberDeepThought
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    30 Aug '16 03:09
    Originally posted by finnegan
    This sounds more like psychotherapy than "spirituality" to me. NLP for example has the same technique of standing in a circle and visualising positive future outcomes.

    http://www.nlp-therapy.co.uk/circle-of-excellence-nlp-technique/

    You can apply similar techniques to chess - I like this guy's chess videos and was amused to find this from him. it is ...[text shortened]... a skill, something we can learn and practice, for which mystical explanations are not required.
    There's an interesting difference between our views of spirituality. I would not regard something as being non-spiritual simply because it has a rational-scientific basis for its effect. I do not regard "mumbo-jumbo" as being a defining feature of the spiritual. While mysticism has its place in religion and, let's face it, psychotherapy its not a defining feature of either field. So that apathist does this exercise and it is understandable as a psychological trick does not entail that it does not have spiritual significance to him. So I disagree with your barrier between the two things. For me spirituality is a very general thing (Geistliche gesundheit is the German for mental health and literally translated means Ghostly health, Geistlich covering both the mental and spiritual which are divided in English for some reason) and does not automatically require a supernatural content. It's your last sentence I have issues with, the rest is fine.
  10. SubscriberFMF
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    30 Aug '16 03:47
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    For me spirituality is a very general thing (Geistliche gesundheit is the German for mental health and literally translated means Ghostly health, Geistlich covering both the mental and spiritual which are divided in English for some reason) and does not automatically require a supernatural content. It's your last sentence I have issues with, the rest is fine.
    Would you say that your view has changed at all since we had this discussion on Thread 166277? The point I was trying to make there was also essentially that "spirituality... does not automatically require supernatural content" but I got the impression you thought there was something missing from my 'definition' of spirituality, which you said was too wide.
  11. Standard memberRBHILL
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    30 Aug '16 16:07
    Originally posted by apathist
    Paganism is very eclectic. Just sharing my view here. The idea of the circle is that sanctuary is mental, the chalk or salt is by choice, all that's needed is determine your purpose and create a safe place to focus on that purpose for a while and then handle what comes next. Maybe an example:

    I deal with anxiety. You worry too much, dad. Heard that alot. ...[text shortened]... eady i guess without the drama.

    "I can do this". Tell me you've never said that to yourself.
    A pastor out of D.C. Wrote a book about praying circles around your children. He must not do a lot of research or does he?!
  12. Standard memberDeepThought
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    30 Aug '16 18:12
    Originally posted by FMF
    Would you say that your view has changed at all since we had this discussion on Thread 166277? The point I was trying to make there was also essentially that "spirituality... does not automatically require supernatural content" but I got the impression you thought there was something missing from my 'definition' of spirituality, which you said was too wide.
    Well, overlap isn't identity. Putting something in a clinical setting seems to strip it of spiritual content.
  13. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    30 Aug '16 21:561 edit
    Originally posted by finnegan
    This sounds more like psychotherapy than "spirituality" to me. NLP for example has the same technique of standing in a circle and visualising positive future outcomes.

    http://www.nlp-therapy.co.uk/circle-of-excellence-nlp-technique/

    You can apply similar techniques to chess - I like this guy's chess videos and was amused to find this from him. it is ...[text shortened]... a skill, something we can learn and practice, for which mystical explanations are not required.
    Have you had any practice at casting a circle, because I don't think you can find out much about this sort of thing by reading about it.
    And why can't psychology be spiritual, (you did mention the Buddhist example. Jung also has deep spiritual conotations )
  14. Hmmm . . .
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    30 Aug '16 23:421 edit
    For those who think that “spirituality” must somehow be tied to (this or that) religion, I would suggest Sam Harris’ Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion.

    Harris is a neuroscientist and an outspoken American atheist, who thinks that spirituality is not only an acceptable, but a useful category. (As I recall, his particular spiritual practice is Vipissana meditation based on Theravada Buddhism.)
  15. Standard memberapathist
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    30 Aug '16 23:55
    Originally posted by finnegan...
    But psychology is not spiritual and the ability to alleviate anxiety is a skill, something we can learn and practice, for which mystical explanations are not required.[/b]
    Maybe you noticed that when my experience sort of leads me to a mystical or spiritual explanation, I then retreat into a psychological explanation. Or maybe enough of that didn't come out in this thread.

    But the thing is that science has no viable explanation for the nature of or existence of subjective experience. That is a brute fact, lol.

    I apologizing for asking, but your post is chock-full of complicated concepts, and definitions may help: what do you mean by psychological, spiritual, mystical?
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