1. Joined
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    11 Nov '13 14:29
    This is an example of religion not mixing with science.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre

    Monseigneur Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître, (French: [ləmɛtʁ] ( listen); 17 July 1894 – 20 June 1966) was a Belgian priest, astronomer and professor of physics at the Université catholique de Louvain.[1] He was the first person to propose the theory of the expansion of the Universe, widely misattributed to Edwin Hubble.[2][3] He was also the first to derive what is now known as Hubble's law and made the first estimation of what is now called the Hubble constant, which he published in 1927, two years before Hubble's article.[4][5][6][7] Lemaître also proposed what became known as the Big Bang theory of the origin of the Universe, which he called his 'hypothesis of the primeval atom'.[8]

    the following is from a humorous article about him found here:
    http://www.cracked.com/article_20662_5-awesome-things-invented-by-last-people-youd-expect.html

    The idea that one little "atom" started it all at a defined point in history sounded a hell of a lot like a priest spouting pseudo-science to back his own beliefs.
    [...]
    But that was OK, because at least somebody believed in Lemaitre's scientific theory: the Vatican. The Catholic Church elected Lemaitre to its Academy of Sciences in Rome, and he became its president in 1960. And the pope happily declared that the man's big bang discovery was proof of creationism and validated Catholicism, but Lemaitre told him to hold back on this last pronouncement. Lemaitre liked science. Lemaitre liked religion. But he said that, much like the Ghostbusters' streams, you shouldn't ever cross them. Because that would cause total protonic reversal. Or a bunch of pointless arguments. Whichever.

    (
    here is where it is stated his belief was that science and religion should never mix:
    http://books.google.ro/books?id=eq7TfxZOzSEC&pg=PA60&dq=&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false)
  2. SubscriberSuzianne
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    11 Nov '13 15:23
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    This is an example of religion not mixing with science.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre

    Monseigneur Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître, (French: [ləmɛtʁ] ( listen); 17 July 1894 – 20 June 1966) was a Belgian priest, astronomer and professor of physics at the Université catholique de Louvain.[1] He was the first perso ...[text shortened]... mix:
    http://books.google.ro/books?id=eq7TfxZOzSEC&pg=PA60&dq=&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false)
    http://books.google.ro/books?id=eq7TfxZOzSEC&pg=PA60&dq=&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

    If this page were in English, I might be able to tell why it refused to load.
  3. Joined
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    11 Nov '13 15:34
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    http://books.google.ro/books?id=eq7TfxZOzSEC&pg=PA60&dq=&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

    If this page were in English, I might be able to tell why it refused to load.
    hmm, its an excerpt from google books. probably you aren't allowed from your location or are at work with funky policies.


    i am gonna type it for you:

    "Many scientists as well as non-scientists have given in to the temptation of substituting science with God at the moment of creation. Lemaitre always considered this a pseudo solution, scientifically as well as theologically illegitimate. Not only is God a nonsensical concept from the point of view of science (since it is beyond mathematical reasoning and experimental testing), but from the point of religion it would be all wrong to reduce god to a scientific hypothesis. [...] He believed that religious and philosophical values were important, indeed essential, to the scientist on a broader ethical level, but they should not interfere in his methods or conclusions".
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    the corrected one.
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    11 Nov '13 16:312 edits
    Monseigneur Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître, (French: [ləmɛtʁ] ( listen); 17 July 1894 – 20 June 1966) was a Belgian priest, astronomer and professor of physics at the Université catholique de Louvain.[1] He was the first person to propose the theory of the expansion of the Universe, widely misattributed to Edwin Hubble.[2][3] He was also the first to derive what is now known as Hubble's law and made the first estimation of what is now called the Hubble constant, which he published in 1927, two years before Hubble's article.[4][5][6][7] Lemaître also proposed what became known as the Big Bang theory of the origin of the Universe, which he called his 'hypothesis of the primeval atom'.[8]


    Its true. A Catholic clergyman first proposed the expansion of an infinitesimal small singularity which has come to be known as the Big Bang.

    Broke my heart!

    Do you think we on this Forum will ever become truly more objective about history - giving credit where it is due and not just blame where it seems generalizations and scorched earth tactics are more handy ?

    Ie. Catholic clerics who supported Galileo's heliocentric solar system.
  5. Joined
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    11 Nov '13 16:40
    Originally posted by sonship
    [quote] Monseigneur Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître, (French: [ləmɛtʁ] ( listen); 17 July 1894 – 20 June 1966) was a Belgian priest, astronomer and professor of physics at the Université catholique de Louvain.[1] He was the first person to propose the theory of the expansion of the Universe, widely misattributed to Edwin Hubble.[2][3] He ...[text shortened]... more handy ?

    Ie. Catholic clerics who suppported Galileo's heliocentric solar system.
    nobody changes his mind because of arguments on the internet. perhaps if we leave arrogance aside when talking to YECS, some might adjust their position. of course, this must be mutual. it is really annoying to try and be fair, patient and open to discussion when rhinds signs his posts with "the instructor", much like a 5 year old would.

    http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/debating/gish.html
    this link shows how one must debate opposing duane gish, a creationist. i believe that number 4 ( Avoid arrogance, appeal to authority, and similar attitudes and tactics) should apply in all debates for both sides. the others are worth considering as well. as long as we all respect these points, change could happen.
  6. Joined
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    11 Nov '13 17:471 edit
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    This is an example of religion not mixing with science.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre

    Monseigneur Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître, (French: [ləmɛtʁ] ( listen); 17 July 1894 – 20 June 1966) was a Belgian priest, astronomer and professor of physics at the Université catholique de Louvain.[1] He was the first perso ...[text shortened]... mix:
    http://books.google.ro/books?id=eq7TfxZOzSEC&pg=PA60&dq=&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false)
    "And the pope happily declared that the man's big bang discovery was proof of creationism and validated Catholicism"

    I think this sentence may be misleading. Creationism at least in the US, is self-described as referring to a young-earth, literal Genesis account of origins. RCC dogma is not this. The sentence should say "consistent with divine creation" or words to that effect. Of course the church has evolved; possibly that pope was himself a creationist.
  7. Standard membersonship
    the corrected one.
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    11 Nov '13 17:50
    nobody changes his mind because of arguments on the internet.


    Maybe Internet discussion forums attract people who are entrenched in their opinions.

    I'd like to think I do learn a thing or two though .... or three.
  8. Joined
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    11 Nov '13 18:001 edit
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    hmm, its an excerpt from google books. probably you aren't allowed from your location or are at work with funky policies.


    i am gonna type it for you:

    "Many scientists as well as non-scientists have given in to the temptation of substituting science with God at the moment of creation. Lemaitre always considered this a pseudo solution, scientificall ...[text shortened]... entist on a broader ethical level, but they should not interfere in his methods or conclusions".
    Doesn't load for me who usually have no problem. I get "Nu sunt disponibile cărţi electronice" which google recognizes as Romanian and translates to "eBooks are not available".

    (There are special characters in the Romanian phrase which RHP does not recognize.)
  9. SubscriberSuzianne
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    11 Nov '13 23:21
    Originally posted by sonship
    [quote] Monseigneur Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître, (French: [ləmɛtʁ] ( listen); 17 July 1894 – 20 June 1966) was a Belgian priest, astronomer and professor of physics at the Université catholique de Louvain.[1] He was the first person to propose the theory of the expansion of the Universe, widely misattributed to Edwin Hubble.[2][3] He ...[text shortened]... more handy ?

    Ie. Catholic clerics who supported Galileo's heliocentric solar system.
    I've been saying for years that there is no reason why one cannot understand and accept science and still have faith in God.

    God is WAY bigger than the literalist YECs think He is.
  10. Standard memberRJHinds
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    12 Nov '13 00:13
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    This is an example of religion not mixing with science.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre

    Monseigneur Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître, (French: [ləmɛtʁ] ( listen); 17 July 1894 – 20 June 1966) was a Belgian priest, astronomer and professor of physics at the Université catholique de Louvain.[1] He was the first perso ...[text shortened]... mix:
    http://books.google.ro/books?id=eq7TfxZOzSEC&pg=PA60&dq=&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false)
    Why should you believe what a Roman Catholic Priest says? Do they really have any credibility?

    Poland's Catholic church apologizes as pedophile scandal spreads

    http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/328518/news/world/poland-s-catholic-church-apologizes-as-pedophile-scandal-spreads

    The Instructor
  11. Joined
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    12 Nov '13 06:401 edit
    Originally posted by JS357
    "And the pope happily declared that the man's big bang discovery was proof of creationism and validated Catholicism"

    I think this sentence may be misleading. Creation[b]ism
    at least in the US, is self-described as referring to a young-earth, literal Genesis account of origins. RCC dogma is not this. The sentence should say "consistent with divine creati ...[text shortened]... to that effect. Of course the church has evolved; possibly that pope was himself a creationist.[/b]
    Creationism is many flavours, even in your US.

    http://ncse.com/creationism/general/creationevolution-continuum
    this paints the picture of creationism, mainly US.

    "The sentence should say "consistent with divine creation""
    this was said from the point of view of the vatican, who not surprisingly own their interpretation of christianity (catholicism). from their point of view, catholicism is the true christianity and this theory validates it.

    not sure i see much importance in this anyway. this wasn't but something to set the context.
  12. Joined
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    12 Nov '13 06:42
    Originally posted by sonship
    nobody changes his mind because of arguments on the internet.


    Maybe Internet discussion forums attract people who are entrenched in their opinions.

    I'd like to think I do learn a thing or two though .... or three.
    perhaps if, like i said, both parties keep their posts arrogance free and logical fallacies free, we just might.
  13. Joined
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    12 Nov '13 06:46
    Originally posted by JS357
    Doesn't load for me who usually have no problem. I get "Nu sunt disponibile cărţi electronice" which google recognizes as Romanian and translates to "eBooks are not available".

    (There are special characters in the Romanian phrase which RHP does not recognize.)
    heh, so that's the issue

    ok, load this,
    http://www.cracked.com/article_20662_5-awesome-things-invented-by-last-people-youd-expect.html


    go to the last paragraph of #5. The Big Bang Theory Was Invented by a Catholic Priest

    then click on " shouldn't ever cross them."


    and read the rest while you're there, they are fairly interesting. or if you don't wanna click, what i typed for suzianne is mostly what's needed to make the point
  14. Joined
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    12 Nov '13 06:48
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Why should you believe what a Roman Catholic Priest says? Do they really have any credibility?

    Poland's Catholic church apologizes as pedophile scandal spreads

    http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/328518/news/world/poland-s-catholic-church-apologizes-as-pedophile-scandal-spreads

    The Instructor
    more than what your cult has. what obscure cult are you a part of again?

    "Poland's Catholic church apologizes as pedophile scandal spreads"
    non sequitor. ad hominem.
  15. Standard memberRJHinds
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    12 Nov '13 07:24
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    more than what your cult has. what obscure cult are you a part of again?

    "Poland's Catholic church apologizes as pedophile scandal spreads"
    non sequitor. ad hominem.
    I call it the way and Christianity.

    The Instructor
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