1. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
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    30 Apr '11 01:10
    In my library, I have a book I bought to read to my children when they
    were young. The title of the book is "The Children's Bible Story Book"
    retold by Anne de Graaf. I was wondering if all the stories in the Bible
    that we usually tell are truth or fiction. Perhaps some are true and others
    fiction or maybe some are partly fiction but based on fact. Maybe they
    were used to teach lessons to children and elaborated on to make the
    story more exciting and interesting to children or to any reader. Jesus
    used the story of Jonah to give a sign of how long He would be in the
    grave. But He never actually said that the Jonah story was all fact and
    no fiction. Does anyone have any ideas on these stories?
  2. Maryland
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    30 Apr '11 13:36
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    In my library, I have a book I bought to read to my children when they
    were young. The title of the book is "The Children's Bible Story Book"
    retold by Anne de Graaf. I was wondering if all the stories in the Bible
    that we usually tell are truth or fiction. Perhaps some are true and others
    fiction or maybe some are partly fiction but based on fact. M ...[text shortened]... t the Jonah story was all fact and
    no fiction. Does anyone have any ideas on these stories?
    They are designed to create fear and keep ignorant people in line.
  3. Cape Town
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    30 Apr '11 14:11
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Maybe they were used to teach lessons to children and elaborated on to make the
    story more exciting and interesting to children or to any reader.
    I doubt that any were written specifically for children. I do think that many of the stories were not intended to be taken as literal historical fact. Some parts of the Bible are clearly attempts at recording history, but others (such as the creation of the world and Noah etc) are more about teaching lessons and explaining things about the world than they are about recording history.
  4. England
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    30 Apr '11 14:18
    what is your point?. it is exactly what it is... easy to understand morality , if you taught it as the bible states there is too much info. the children have enough to learn, as adults then you can focus if the desire is needed.
  5. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    30 Apr '11 14:21
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    In my library, I have a book I bought to read to my children when they
    were young. The title of the book is "The Children's Bible Story Book"
    retold by Anne de Graaf. I was wondering if all the stories in the Bible
    that we usually tell are truth or fiction. Perhaps some are true and others
    fiction or maybe some are partly fiction but based on fact. M ...[text shortened]... t the Jonah story was all fact and
    no fiction. Does anyone have any ideas on these stories?
    I think they are based in reality but twisted due to being passed word of mouth. For example, the Great Flood is also known as the Flandrian Transgression. Adam means "town" in Sumerian, and Eden was where the Sumerian towns were. The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil represents agriculture.

    http://ldolphin.org/eden/

    http://athousandyoung.blogspot.com/2010/12/history-and-prehistory-of-everything.html
  6. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
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    30 Apr '11 14:30
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I doubt that any were written specifically for children. I do think that many of the stories were not intended to be taken as literal historical fact. Some parts of the Bible are clearly attempts at recording history, but others (such as the creation of the world and Noah etc) are more about teaching lessons and explaining things about the world than they are about recording history.
    I know you identify yourself as an atheist and I haven't had kind
    words for you in the past; but even as a Christian, I tend to agree
    with you that a serpent did not actually speak to Eve nor was Jonah
    actually swallowed by a whale, big fish,sea monster, or whatever;
    but at least part of these stories were allegories. These are the
    kind of stories that are picked out of the Holy Bible to tell children
    regardless if they were actually written for children or not. What
    I was attempting to find out was if other Christians had the same view
    I did and if not why? And would it make any difference to their faith
    in Jesus if the stories were not entirely all fact? But thanks for your input.
  7. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    30 Apr '11 14:36
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil represents agriculture.
    Hey, that was *MY* theory!
  8. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    30 Apr '11 15:15
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Hey, that was *MY* theory!
    You are the first one I heard it from, that's true.

    However you're not the first one to come up with it. Here it is, along with a connection to ancient Sumerian mythology:

    "The whole Garden of Eden story, however, when finally written, could be seen to represent the point of view of the hunter gatherers," Zarins reasons. "It was the result of tension between the two groups, the collision of two ways of life. Adam and Eve were heirs to natural bounty. They had everything they needed. But they sinned and were expelled. How did they sin? By challenging God's very omnipotence. In so doing they represented the agriculturists, the upstarts who insisted on taking matters into their own hands, relying upon their knowledge and their own skills rather than on His bounty.
    ...
    On later tablets, to their astonishment. scholars began reading, in literature, not only about Eden and Adam and the "lady of the rib" but also about a Great Flood, a Sumerian hero called Gilgamesh and his search for the Tree of Life. There was even a serpent. Gilgamesh had gone "down" from Sumer to the Gulf area where he had been told he would find a plant that would give him eternal life.
    http://ldolphin.org/eden/
  9. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    30 Apr '11 15:22
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    You are the first one I heard it from, that's true.

    However you're not the first one to come up with it. Here it is, along with a connection to ancient Sumerian mythology:

    "The whole Garden of Eden story, however, when finally written, could be seen to represent the point of view of the hunter gatherers," Zarins reasons. "It was the result o ...[text shortened]... he would find a plant that would give him eternal life.
    http://ldolphin.org/eden/
    It's mine, mine, MINE! I'm the only one who EVER thought of it! Keep your pilfering hands off of my precious theory, you thieving troglodyte!
  10. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    30 Apr '11 15:26
    Originally posted by rwingett
    It's mine, mine, MINE! I'm the only one who EVER thought of it! Keep your pilfering hands off of my precious theory, you thieving troglodyte!
    Sounds like you and Wajoma have more in common than I thought!
  11. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    30 Apr '11 15:54
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Sounds like you and Wajoma have more in common than I thought!
    :'(
  12. Joined
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    30 Apr '11 18:06
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    In my library, I have a book I bought to read to my children when they
    were young. The title of the book is "The Children's Bible Story Book"
    retold by Anne de Graaf. I was wondering if all the stories in the Bible
    that we usually tell are truth or fiction. Perhaps some are true and others
    fiction or maybe some are partly fiction but based on fact. M ...[text shortened]... t the Jonah story was all fact and
    no fiction. Does anyone have any ideas on these stories?
    I think a more worthwhile question about a Bible story from any source is, "What important truth is conveyed by this story?" Your post hints at this.
  13. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    01 May '11 01:45
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    You are the first one I heard it from, that's true.

    However you're not the first one to come up with it. Here it is, along with a connection to ancient Sumerian mythology:

    "The whole Garden of Eden story, however, when finally written, could be seen to represent the point of view of the hunter gatherers," Zarins reasons. "It was the result o ...[text shortened]... he would find a plant that would give him eternal life.
    http://ldolphin.org/eden/
    I have to say, though, that the tree of knowledge being equated with agriculture may seem a little too restrictive. Upon reflection, I think the tree of knowledge represents technology in general. Or technological thinking. Agriculture is just the level of technological development that led to the irrevocable break with 'Eden.'

    I think it works like this: IN THE BEGINNING mankind was fully integrated into the natural world. As a hunter-gatherer, he was ONE with the world (and with god). He did not perceive of a separation between himself and nature (or with god). But then he ate from the tree of knowledge and developed technology. Or, more specifically, he acquired a technological MODE OF THINKING, whereby nature became something to be manipulated for his benefit. In his quest to TAME nature, he became estranged from it (and from god). Agriculture, being the ultimate way of manipulating nature for his own benefit, represented the final expulsion from the Garden. Mankind had developed the means to better feed himself, which led to an exploding population, which, in turn, caused his irrevocable expulsion from the Garden of Eden. It was no longer feasible for mankind to adequately feed himself with a hunter-gatherer lifestyle. Mankind was now fully estranged from nature. Due to the technological mode of thinking he had acquired from the tree of knowledge, he perceived himself as being separate from nature. Nature was something to be manipulated, used up, or exploited for his own short term benefit. There was no going back. Paradise had been lost. And mankind has been wandering through the wilderness ever since.
  14. Joined
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    01 May '11 01:49
    Originally posted by rwingett
    I have to say, though, that the tree of knowledge being equated with agriculture may seem a little too restrictive. Upon reflection, I think the tree of knowledge represents technology in general. Or technological thinking. Agriculture is just the level of technological development that led to the irrevocable break with 'Eden.'

    I think it works like thi ...[text shortened]... ack. Paradise had been lost. And mankind has been wandering through the wilderness ever since.
    It's not the tree of knowledge.

    It's the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
  15. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    01 May '11 01:51
    Originally posted by josephw
    It's not the tree of knowledge.

    It's the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
    Shut up.
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