02 Jan 22
@pb1022 saidYou think that without satan in the garden, Eve would have left the forbidden fruit alone?
I hear what you’re saying, but in the Adam and Eve account, I think you’re leaving out a key player, namely Satan.
I don’t believe either Adam or Eve would have disobeyed God had Satan not been there and persuaded Eve (with a lie) to eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil (Carl Sagan referred to it as the Tree of Knowledge and said God wanted His creation to be ...[text shortened]... e of the Law was to show man his need for a Saviour, which is of course where Jesus Christ comes in.
You're then implying that humans would be able to choose life, and even be sinless, if it weren't for satan.
Right?
02 Jan 22
@ Chaney3
If Adam and Eve hadn’t have sinned their descendants (as long as they didn’t sin) had the prospect of ongoing life. As you rightly point out death came in and we are drawn to it irrespective if we want to or not be because we are imperfect sinners ( the wages of sin are death)
Eve was deceived by the serpent (Satan) into eating from the tree of knowledge on the basis that she would be like God (Genesis 3 4-5) So once that had both fallen their offspring would be imperfect and death would be inevitable.
The only way out was under a provision of the mosaic law “soul will be for soul” which meant that later Jesus Christ our redeemer and ransomer gave up his perfect earthly life to effective pay for Adams folly. This means opened up the prospect for man to once again have the prospect of eternal life at an undisclosed later point in time Rev 21 3-4
One day the 3 score years and ten will be in the distance and there will be no more war - quite a nice prospect to look forward to.
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I believe He was talking about the Holy Communion, also known as the Lord’s Supper.
In John 6 I believe the eating of Christ involves taking in the words of Christ. And of course the whole Bible is the word of Christ to us.
"It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words which I have spoken to you are spirit and are life." (John 6:63)
When some of his disciples withdrew because He had talked about eating His flesh and drinking His blood to have life in themselves, He pointed the remaning ones to His word.
"It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh profits nothing; THE WORDS that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life." (v.63)
Peter caught on:
"Simon Peter answered Him, Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life." (v. 68)
You know man must live on everything that proceeds from the mouth of God.
Now Christ is in the word of God.
To eat Christ need not only refer to the Lord's Table or the Lord's Supper.
The WORDS the He speaks to us are spirit and are life.
We take Him in by taking into our being the words the He speaks to us.
We are to let the word of Christ dwell in us richly. (Col. 3:16)[/b]
02 Jan 22
@medullah saidIf we are imperfect sinners, then how can we choose life?
@ Chaney3
If Adam and Eve hadn’t have sinned their descendants (as long as they didn’t sin) had the prospect of ongoing life. As you rightly point out death came in and we are drawn to it irrespective if we want to or not be because we are imperfect sinners ( the wages of sin are death)
Eve was deceived by the serpent (Satan) into eating from the tree of knowledge on t ...[text shortened]... en will be in the distance and there will be no more war - quite a nice prospect to look forward to.
Why would God even suggest it in Deuteronomy?
(For the record, when I ask questions it's because I'm seeking, not because I think someone absolutely knows for certain what the answer is)
02 Jan 22
@chaney3 saidI take it you are familiar with the story of the Good Samaritan. Are you the type that will be the Samaritan that stops to help the dying man, or are you the the Priest or Levite who turns away from the man in need. Which are you?
We are being told 2 opposite and contradictory things:
#1. Choose Life
#2. Due to our sin condition, we are unable to choose life.
The Good Samaritans choose life because they naturally are compassionate people who help others
The ones who are unable to choose life are the selfish ones who are only concerned about themselves
Good Samaritans of this world get eternal life
Others are cast out
02 Jan 22
@rajk999 saidThat is ONE scenario from the Samaritan's life, in a life filled with decisions. Yes, he made the right decision at that particular moment, but did he do the same for his entire life? We both know the answer.
I take it you are familiar with the story of the Good Samaritan. Are you the type that will be the Samaritan that stops to help the dying man, or are you the the Priest or Levite who turns away from the man in need. Which are you?
The Good Samaritans choose life because they naturally are compassionate people who help others
The ones who are unable to choose life are ...[text shortened]... ly concerned about themselves
Good Samaritans of this world get eternal life
Others are cast out
Rajk, you continue to ignore the condition that humans are in, and only focus on specific situations, and specific events.
Doing good works all the time, and making correct decisions all the time is NOT possible. You should stop preaching.
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02 Jan 22
@rajk999 said<<The Good Samaritans choose life because they naturally are compassionate people who help others >>
I take it you are familiar with the story of the Good Samaritan. Are you the type that will be the Samaritan that stops to help the dying man, or are you the the Priest or Levite who turns away from the man in need. Which are you?
The Good Samaritans choose life because they naturally are compassionate people who help others
The ones who are unable to choose life are ...[text shortened]... ly concerned about themselves
Good Samaritans of this world get eternal life
Others are cast out
Yeah, and your compassion for other people just oozes out of you in this forum 🙄
02 Jan 22
@chaney3 saidIt appears that you made your choice. You are the Priest and Levite type. They Good Samaritan type inherit the Kingdom of God. You should stop talking and stop listening to the church. Read your bible and listen to Christ.
That is ONE scenario from the Samaritan's life, in a life filled with decisions. Yes, he made the right decision at that particular moment, but did he do the same for his entire life? We both know the answer.
Rajk, you continue to ignore the condition that humans are in, and only focus on specific situations, and specific events.
Doing good works all the time, and making correct decisions all the time is NOT possible. You should stop preaching.
02 Jan 22
@rajk999 saidAre you prepared to tell me, from what you know of scripture, that a person can choose life......and then flawlessly live out that choice, with no sin, or no mistakes, or no rebellion?
It appears that you made your choice. You are the Priest and Levite type. They Good Samaritan type inherit the Kingdom of God. You should stop talking and stop listening to the church. Read your bible and listen to Christ.
02 Jan 22
@chaney3 saidIs the word flawlessly in the bible or did you get that from the church pastor? If you want the truth and eternal life in the Kingdom of God read your bible. If you want lies and confusion go to church and listen to the pastor.
Are you prepared to tell me, from what you know of scripture, that a person can choose life......and then flawlessly live out that choice, with no sin, or no mistakes, or no rebellion?
@chaney3 saidHello Chaney. You are imperfect and you are going to make mistakes. Just ty not to do it deliberately.
If we are imperfect sinners, then how can we choose life?
Why would God even suggest it in Deuteronomy?
(For the record, when I ask questions it's because I'm seeking, not because I think someone absolutely knows for certain what the answer is)
You should never stop seeking (and I certainly haven't in the last 25 years especially) We should always be testing to make sure that what we understood was true is true. You are doing the right thing.
So to address your points
1) After the fall of Adam we were screwed.
2) provision was made in the mosaic law (Exodus 20:1 and Deuteronomy 5:1) to dig us out of that hole (Jesus Christ)
3 ) When Christ arrives he tells the bit the you are asking after in John 17:3 where Jesus says
" And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." KJV
"This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ." NWT
Both translations get at the same point. Even Christians on this site (no names) that argue forcibly against each other over doctrinal issues on a regular basis will agree that Jesus and his teachings are the only way.
As Raj has said, Read the bible every day. I'm tying to read the whole book, so starting from the first Chapter of the Old testament
and read one chapter, and because personally I find the OT a bit heavy going I then read the first Chapter from the new testament so two chapters a day. Day1 Gen1 and Math1, then Day 2 Gen2 Math2. It works for me.
03 Jan 22
@medullah saidThis thread exists because I was provoked into thinking "what's good enough"?
Hello Chaney. You are imperfect and you are going to make mistakes. Just ty not to do it deliberately.
You should never stop seeking (and I certainly haven't in the last 25 years especially) We should always be testing to make sure that what we understood was true is true. You are doing the right thing.
So to address your points
1) After the fall of Adam we were s ...[text shortened]... he new testament so two chapters a day. Day1 Gen1 and Math1, then Day 2 Gen2 Math2. It works for me.
Too many times, when discussing Jesus, it's concerning eternal destiny, and not how that translates into living out life here on earth.
From what you've written, it seems like you're suggesting that one should make the decision to "follow Christ and His teachings", to the best of your ability.....and try not to sin.....deliberately. Is that good enough?
Jesus talked with His disciples about helping the poor, visiting people in prison, feeding the hungry, clothing those who need it, etc., but how many people do these things on a consistent basis? We cannot earn a living, sleep and spend the rest of our lives in service. And it's these in between times where we're most vulnerable to commit some sort of sin.
On the other hand, I've read in devotionals how 'perfectionism' can be so overwhelming that one gives up trying at all.
When "choosing life".....what's good enough?
(Just sharing what's on my mind)
03 Jan 22
@chaney3 saidIf you are looking for a religious dogma that tells you that you need not fear "damnation" regardless of what evil deeds you do, have done, or will do in the future, and a dogma that tells you that your damnation was already cancelled out, so to speak, by what "took place on Calvary in Jesus Christ" when he was executed by the Romans for sedition, a dogma that tells you "He became sin on your behalf" and that all this means "God judged your sins" 2,000 years ago and that this means you have the "assurance" that your "sins" therefore do not matter, and that all this will happen simply because you believe it to be true, then perhaps you should follow sonship.
This thread exists because I was provoked into thinking "what's good enough"?