Christ - the Place of Redemption

@secondson said
We all have ideas that didn't originate with us. As long as sonship didn't copy/paste it's not plagiarism. Especially in this format.

We're all here saying things and expressing thoughts and ideas that didn't originate in our own minds that someone somewhere hasn't already said. We just add our own flavor to it.

You'll need to produce hard evidence before I'll be satisfied you're not just blowing smoke.

sonship has posted countless thousands of posts in which he was simply regurgitating the writings of Watchman Nee and Witness Lee - usually without saying so. Plagiarism is  the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own.

@secondson said
Where? Post the original quote, and show where sonship copy/pasted it without citing the source.

You don't mind me asking for the evidence do you? I need to see specific and irrefutable evidence.

Really?

So when sonship makes several long detailed posts in a row (as he does frequently in threads) and doesn't provide a source for any of them, you think it reasonable to believe that these words are just pouring out of him?

Indeed, when I have challenged sonship in the past about not providing a source he has on occasion gone back and provided one. (Negating the whole 'posting from memory' defense).

As a writer myself, plagiarism is one thing I find deplorable.

@fmf said
sonship has posted countless thousands of posts in which he was simply regurgitating the writings of Watchman Nee and Witness Lee - usually without saying so. Plagiarism is  the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own.

Nonsense. Sonship is well versed in his knowledge of the scriptures. That he sounds a lot like Watchman Nee and Witness Lee doesn't make him a plagiarist. Sonship simply believes the same things in the same way and presents his own beliefs in his own way.

You being too danged nit picky. Seems you have an innate need to find personal fault with those you disagree with on religious grounds.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Really?

So when sonship makes several long detailed posts in a row (as he does frequently in threads) and doesn't provide a source for any of them, you think it reasonable to believe that these words are just pouring out of him?

Indeed, when I have challenged sonship in the past about not providing a source he has on occasion gone back and provided one. (Negating the whole 'posting from memory' defense).

Well, to be honest, I don't actually read all of sonship's posts that carefully. I skim quickly, and from time to time I find something he posted a bit beyond what I see in the verses he references, but I have never thought that he plagiarized.

Haven't seen that.

I also find it perfectly reasonable that sonship can write page after page discussing many topics and doctrines found in the scriptures right off the top of his head. So can I, but that's not why I'm here, so I don't. Besides, sonship is much more prolific than I am.

I go slower. One little post at a time.

So maybe sonship has a bit of a history. It's not as if he's trying to publish what he's posting here for monetary gain. That would be more serious.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
As a writer myself, plagiarism is one thing I find deplorable.

If I were a writer I would sue anyone stealing my copyrighted materials. It's a serious offense.

Heck, the Chinese steal our patented stuff all the time. Industrial espionage I think they call it. Corporations do it all the time.

@secondson said
Well, to be honest, I don't actually read all of sonship's posts that carefully. I skim quickly, and from time to time I find something he posted a bit beyond what I see in the verses he references, but I have never thought that he plagiarized.

Haven't seen that.

I also find it perfectly reasonable that sonship can write page after page discussing many topics and doct ...[text shortened]... t as if he's trying to publish what he's posting here for monetary gain. That would be more serious.

Yes I agree, posting/plagiarizing for monetary gain would be worse, but still maintain that passing the work of others off as your own is poor show in any circumstance.

Sonship likes to go into 'preacher mode' and suspect that providing his sources diminishes (in his own mind) his authority.

@secondson said
Nonsense. Sonship is well versed in his knowledge of the scriptures. That he sounds a lot like Watchman Nee and Witness Lee doesn't make him a plagiarist. Sonship simply believes the same things in the same way and presents his own beliefs in his own way.

Perhaps he should give links to Watchman Nee and Witness Lee writings, stop passing off their ideas as his own in his 'lectures' here as if this is his personal blog, and then use this debate and discussion forum for debate and discussion where disagreement is not dismissed as "eating animal excrement" or the thoughts of "demons" or " stinky lepers". Just a thought.

I would welcome sonship's Christian contributions to diverse discussions about politics, marriage, sexuality, raising children, community, environment, drugs and drug abuse, human rights, justice, philosophy, history, culture, sociology, ethics, morality, development, and all manner of other things seen through the prism of walking the walk of a Christian life [rather than just thinking the think]. Just a thought.

Self-appointed dissent-averse lecturing about Watchman Nee and Witness Lee's writings on a Christian blog... and debates and discussions about spirituality topics for a community with diverse beliefs here. Just a suggestion.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Yes I agree, posting/plagiarizing for monetary gain would be worse, but still maintain that passing the work of others off as your own is poor show in any circumstance.

Sonship likes to go into 'preacher mode' and suspect that providing his sources diminishes (in his own mind) his authority.

I hear ya! I don't know the man well enough to be suspect of him, and I can't really analyze his writing well enough to pass judgment on his motives.

But I am glad he works for and serves God. As prolific as he is he could be dangerous in the wrong hands. 🤣

@secondson said
I recommend you give an example of where sonship presented an idea that was not his own.

And while you're at it try to get an idea of your own instead of mimicking others.

Sonship has admitted that he presents the ideas of others, this is not in contention. It is him not acknowledging the origin which is poor form and revealingly small.

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

[quote] THE ARK OF THE TESTIMONY
(6)
Scripture Reading: Exo. 25:17-22
THE PLACE OF PROPITIATION
Not many Christians have seen that Christ is the place of propitiation. Speaking of Christ Jesus, Paul says in Romans 3:25, “Whom God set forth a propitiation-cover through faith in His blood.” Here the Greek word for propitiation-cover is hilasterion, wh ...[text shortened]... s many of his or her own thoughts.

C'mon guy. How can anyone be 100% the same as someone else ??

The point here is that your posting is unoriginal and your not citing the original thinking relays your vanity in trying to pass it off as your own ministry.

Furthermore your lack of genuine guidance by the spirit in these copyings leads you into posting doctrinal and textual errors which you get picked up on and subsequently desperately try to defend because you are simply too proud to admit when you are wrong.

A small example is your “fountain of blood” debacle a few weeks ago.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Sonship likes to go into 'preacher mode' and suspect that providing his sources diminishes (in his own mind) his authority.

Spot on.

@fmf said
Perhaps he should give links to Watchman Nee and Witness Lee writings, stop passing off their ideas as his own in his 'lectures' here as if this is his personal blog, and then use this debate and discussion forum for debate and discussion where disagreement is not dismissed as "eating animal excrement" or the thoughts of "demons" or " stinky lepers". Just a thought.

I would we ...[text shortened]... discussions about spirituality topics for a community with diverse beliefs here. Just a suggestion.

It's not that you haven't made a few valid points here FMF, but you sound a lot like a self-appointed critic of the do's and don't's of this forum's "discussions about spirituality topics for a community with diverse beliefs".

Everybody's different and has their own style with which they use to engage in debate. There are just too many variables to simply put any particular individual into a box or shape into a mold where one size fits all.

If this forum is to remain diverse, then a little wobble room needs to be afforded to each, without passing critical judgment against personalities.

We're all guilty of doing that to one degree or another.

@divegeester said
Sonship has admitted that he presents the ideas of others, this is not in contention. It is him not acknowledging the origin which is poor form and revealingly small.

Your perspective is "revealingly small".

Just because sonship shares the same views of others and expresses those views in similar fashion doesn't give you the right to psychoanalyze his personality in a public forum just to make you feel big about yourself.

In the mean time you use that tactic to excuse yourself from engaging in the topic of discussion. You lose focus on the thread thought progression when you become subjective and focus on your own selfish feelings.

@secondson said
It's not that you haven't made a few valid points here FMF, but you sound a lot like a self-appointed critic of the do's and don't's of this forum's "discussions about spirituality topics for a community with diverse beliefs".

Everyone here is "self-appointed".