1. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    30 Oct '12 00:16
    (As quoted by RJ recently in another thread).

    I would just like to know why Christ is the only one? What about Buddha , the Zen and Sufi masters, and other assorted scallywags?

    Why do christians see spirituality and religion as a 'one size fits all' proposition?

    Why not more open to diversity like the Hindus? (well some of them, anyway)
  2. SubscriberFMF
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    30 Oct '12 00:28
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    (As quoted by RJ recently in another thread).

    I would just like to know why Christ is the only one? What about Buddha , the Zen and Sufi masters, and other assorted scallywags?

    Why do christians see spirituality and religion as a 'one size fits all' proposition?

    Why not more open to diversity like the Hindus? (well some of them, anyway)
    "Saviour" from what? Death?

    Death definitely happens.
  3. Standard memberRJHinds
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    30 Oct '12 00:43
    Originally posted by FMF
    "Saviour" from what? Death?

    Death definitely happens.
    Bodies die all the time, but Christ is the only one with the authority to save souls and restore bodies.
  4. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    30 Oct '12 00:53
    Originally posted by FMF
    "Saviour" from what? Death?

    Death definitely happens.
    I go with Buddhist terminology on that one and I don't like using the word "save" usually. If one must use that word then I would say that only oneself can save oneself.
  5. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    30 Oct '12 00:54
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Bodies die all the time, but Christ is the only one with the authority to save souls and restore bodies.
    If this is only going to lead to circular arguments then this thread has already failed šŸ™
  6. SubscriberFMF
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    30 Oct '12 00:561 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Bodies die all the time, but Christ is the only one with the authority to save souls and restore bodies.
    So you say. But if that were the case, why hasn't He revealed Himself in a way that embraces all people of all cultures? Your assertions/hopes/speculations mean nothing to billions and billions of people. Why didn't your version of God also reveal Himself in China and India and Africa etc.? I don't see how Hebrew folk tales set in the Levant have any relevance to peoples who already have their own folk tale traditions, many of which stretch back thousands of years, and upon which the Christ story had no impact or connection.
  7. SubscriberFMF
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    30 Oct '12 00:57
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    I go with Buddhist terminology on that one and I don't like using the word "save" usually. If one must use that word then I would say that only oneself can save oneself.
    "Save" yourself from what?
  8. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    30 Oct '12 01:02
    Originally posted by FMF
    "Save" yourself from what?
    yourself.

    (The linguistics from this point go shooting off like quantum particles, I find one must find a decent interpretation of the facts themselves before they can make much of it)
  9. SubscriberFMF
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    30 Oct '12 01:091 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    "Save" yourself from what?

    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    yourself.
    You mean stuff like succumbing to drug addiction, getting incarcerated or beating one's children when one gets into black moods?
  10. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    30 Oct '12 01:13
    Originally posted by FMF
    You mean stuff like succumbing to drug addiction, getting incarcerated or beating one's children when one gets into black moods?
    Yes, those and the other 83997 follies (that number coming from a buddist interpretationšŸ™‚ )
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    30 Oct '12 01:173 edits
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    (As quoted by RJ recently in another thread).

    I would just like to know why Christ is the only one? What about Buddha , the Zen and Sufi masters, and other assorted scallywags?

    Why do christians see spirituality and religion as a 'one size fits all' proposition?

    Why not more open to diversity like the Hindus? (well some of them, anyway)
    From what I gather, this would be true because of the belief that only through the belief that Christ is your saviour can one be freed from the "penalty of sin". So it's "saviour" from the "penalty of sin". It's the eternal "get out of jail free" card. Of course, Jesus didn't teach this when He walked the Earth, but that doesn't seem to deter Christians from this belief even though Jesus proclaimed time and again that one must follow HIS word. I know of no claim that "Buddha , the Zen and Sufi masters, and other assorted scallywags" provide this.
  12. SubscriberFMF
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    30 Oct '12 01:25
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    Yes, those and the other 83997 follies (that number coming from a buddist interpretationšŸ™‚ )
    If a belief that "Christ is the only one" means one doesn't beat one's children when one gets into black moods [and other damaging "follies"], isn't that a beneficial thing that we can welcome?
  13. Standard memberRJHinds
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    30 Oct '12 06:221 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    So you say. But if that were the case, why hasn't He revealed Himself in a way that embraces all people of all cultures? Your assertions/hopes/speculations mean nothing to billions and billions of people. Why didn't your version of God also reveal Himself in China and India and Africa etc.? I don't see how Hebrew folk tales set in the Levant have any relevance t ...[text shortened]... stretch back thousands of years, and upon which the Christ story had no impact or connection.
    He has revealed himself in a way that embraces all people of all cultures and nations. This is what the Holy Bible says:

    And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles. As He says also in Hosea,

    “I will call those who were not My people, ‘My people,’
    And her who was not beloved, ‘beloved.’”
    “And it shall be that in the place where it was said to them, ‘you are not My people,’
    There they shall be called sons of the living God.”

    (Romans 9:23-26 KJV)

    For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

    (Romans 10:12 KJV)

    There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

    (Galatians 3:28 KJV)

    Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

    (Colossians 3:11 KJV)

    For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
    Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
    For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
    Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.


    (1 Timothy 2:3-6 KJV)

    And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

    (Matthew 28:18-20 KJV)
  14. SubscriberFMF
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    30 Oct '12 07:18
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    He has revealed himself in a way that embraces all people of all cultures and nations.
    Not so. If He did indeed reveal Himself, it was in a way that would only be described as "embracing all people of all cultures and nations" in the mind/writings of a parochial Jewish/early Christian author with a severely restricted world view and a concept of "all people of all cultures and nations" that probably only extended to a fraction of the world's population.

    One would not expect much different from a culturally and geographically specific folk tale. And one would not expect much different from a writer who was so smitten with his own spiritual beliefs that he projected it onto a world whose full range of diversity and separate narratives of spiritual development were unknown to him.

    If Jesus was indeed the revelation of "God" in a way that was intended to embrace all people of all cultures and nations, it was unsuccessful. It was just a turn of events in Jewish history that lead to a breakaway religion.
  15. SubscriberSuzianne
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    30 Oct '12 20:251 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    Not so. If He did indeed reveal Himself, it was in a way that would only be described as "embracing all people of all cultures and nations" in the mind/writings of a parochial Jewish/early Christian author with a severely restricted world view and a concept of "all people of all cultures and nations" that probably only extended to a fraction of the world's popul essful. It was just a turn of events in Jewish history that lead to a breakaway religion.
    And yet the Christian faith counts many in these cultures and nations as adherents and faithful. Clearly the faith cuts through the cultural differences or no one of these cultures would follow the faith. Why do you expect the people of these cultures to have such a restricted world view that they cannot perceive the value of the Christian faith?

    I disagree that "it was unsuccessful". Far from being a mere "breakaway religion", the Christian faith is a major religion worldwide. People of ALL cultures have embraced the truth of the faith. That kind of denies that they have any sort of restricted world view that you would like them to have.
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