1. Standard membersonship
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    19 Aug '17 11:32
    Jesus Christ is the divine and eternal entitlement of all Christians.

    I looked up the definition of entitlement and read -

    en·ti·tle·ment
    inˈtīdlmənt,enˈtīdlmənt/Submit
    noun
    the fact of having a right to something.
    "full entitlement to fees and maintenance should be offered"
    synonyms: right, prerogative, claim; More
    the amount to which a person has a right.
    "annual leave entitlement"
    synonyms: right, prerogative, claim; More
    the belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.
    "no wonder your kids have a sense of entitlement"


    Christians of varying persuasions and convictions can love one another when they realize that they are all entitled by privileged to the most wonderful Person of whom a more wonderful does not and cannot exist.

    Jesus Christ is the eternal entitlement of all the believers in Christ.

    Come and enjoy Christ the ultimate divine and eternal entitlement.
    Its never going to stop !!
  2. Standard membersonship
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    19 Aug '17 11:58
    Where does the Bible say Christ is the ultimate entitlement ?
    In the wondeful letter of Paul to the Colossians of course.
    I submit that that epistle is all about Jesus Christ as the ultimate entitlement of the saved.

    My version does not use the word entitlement though. It uses the word "portion" - Christ is the portion of the saints.

    " Giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you for a share of the allotted portion of the saints in the light." (Col. 1:12)


    Believing into Jesus Christ causes God the Father to QUALIFY us for a rich allotment, a share, a designated part of Someone so wonderful - Christ.

    What do I have coming to me? - Christ.
    What do I have a full right to ? Christ.
    What am I completely entitled to inherit? Christ .

    To not enjoy this One is to remain in spiritual darkness.
    You don't know what is wrong and you don't know who to blame.

    Man needs to come into the light by seeing what God has allotted to forgiven sinners - they may share in Someone inexhaustibly rich and precious - Christ.

    What a revolution occurs in a man or woman's being when they realize that it is a Person that they need. It is not a thing or a matter - but it is a Person.
  3. Standard membersonship
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    19 Aug '17 12:12
    Christ, Paul writes, is the allotted portion of the saints (sanctified ones, the ones made holy).

    God the Father has gone through great trouble in order to qualify every saved person for a share in this ultimate and eternal treasure - the very Person of Jesus Christ.

    Let's give all credit where it is due. The Apostle Paul wrote it -

    "Giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you ... "


    Qualified you for WHAT ?

    It is a WHO - One who is so rich that He needs to be apportioned out - parcel by parcel to billions of people for their eternal enjoyment.

    " ... the Father, who has qualified you for a share of the allotted portion of the saints ..."


    You believe into Christ.
    I believe into Christ.

    You get your allotted portion.
    I receive my allotted portion.
    Altogether, whoever we are, we receive an allotted portion of this priceless treasure - Christ.

    We are saved to be entitled to Christ.
    We are saved to have a portion each of Christ.

    There is so much to Him that there is enough to be apportioned out to billions of people for their eternal enjoyment.

    I have become persuaded that when Paul wrote this book of Colossians he had before him the Old Testament example of the Good Land - the Promised Land. It was apportioned out, section by section to the twelve tribes as the inheritance of each.

    I believe the though of the Apostle Paul was that the Promised Land was not heaven. But it is a Person. The Good Land of the Old Testament was a pointer and symbol of Christ who is to be apportioned out to all the saved human beings.

    So Christ is the eternal and ultimate entitlement of man in God's salvation.
  4. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    19 Aug '17 12:20
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Jesus Christ is the divine and eternal entitlement of all Christians.

    I looked up the definition of entitlement and read -

    [quote] en·ti·tle·ment
    inˈtīdlmənt,enˈtīdlmənt/Submit
    noun
    the fact of having a right to something.
    "full entitlement to fees and maintenance should be offered"
    synonyms: right, prerogative, claim; More
    the amount to which ...[text shortened]...
    Come and enjoy Christ the ultimate divine and eternal entitlement.
    Its never going to stop !!
    Why give the dictionary definition for 'entitlement', when your biblical support is for the word 'portion.'

    Why not simply give the definition for 'portion?!' Would 'Christ, the ultimate portion' not be sufficient for your assertion that a Christian has a 'right' to Jesus? Alternatively, please provide a more convincing link between entitlement and portion.
  5. Standard membersonship
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    19 Aug '17 12:56
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    Why give the dictionary definition for 'entitlement', when your biblical support is for the word 'portion.'


    To get some posters to think about how God always does the right thing at the right time in the right spirit righteously.

    I was being as provocative as the poster who wanted to announce that of course Jesus would be a Republican. But I am trying to do so constructively.


    Why not simply give the definition for 'portion?!' Would 'Christ, the ultimate portion' not be sufficient for your assertion that a Christian has a 'right' to Jesus? Alternatively, please provide a more convincing link between entitlement and portion.


    See reply above.
    You should get the link between entitlement and portion as you read the posts.

    Synonyms to entitlement are such words as right, prerogative, claim, permission, dispensation ....

    All these words are appropriate to what God has in mind to distribute Christ to those saved in Him. They have an unimaginable right, an unimaginable prerogative to be conformed to the image of Christ. they have a claim to explore all that Christ is. They have right to apply Christ.

    In fact whatever they need is found in Christ.
    It is not just the Christ come to live in people. But it is that Christ becomes a realm in which they can walk about as though walking about in the Promise Land of Canaan in the Old Testament.

    " As therefore you have received the Christ, Jesus the Lord, walk in Him." (Col. 2:6)


    Paul is saying that we who are saved have a right to walk around in this sphere of Jesus Christ. He is so extensive and so vast, like the good land of Canaan.

    We can be "rooted in Him" - implying that we draw up all our life resources from Christ.

    We can be "grounded" in Him - implying that we are part of a grand architectural structure - a living building of God and man.

    " As therefore you have received the Christ, Jesus the Lord, walk in Him,

    Having been rooted and being built up in Him, and being established in the faith even as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving." (vs. 6,7)


    Atheists usually abound in grumbling and complaining here.
    Just watch the complaining and grumbling of atheists to this thread.

    as a believer I intend rather to abound in thanksgiving, even while discussing the Gospel.
  6. Standard membersonship
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    19 Aug '17 13:07
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    Why give the dictionary definition for 'entitlement', when your biblical support is for the word 'portion.'

    Why not simply give the definition for 'portion?!' Would 'Christ, the ultimate portion' not be sufficient for your assertion that a Christian has a 'right' to Jesus? Alternatively, please provide a more convincing link between entitlement and portion.
    Alternatively, please provide a more convincing link between entitlement and portion.


    It helps to be familiar with the book of Joshua in the Old Testament.
    After Moses died his assistant Joshua led the Isrealites into Canaan.

    Lots were drawn up after the conquest (though not complete) of the land. The land was portioned sector by sector and assigned to the twelve tribes. That was the allotment of each. That was the portion of the promise land that they were to occupy.

    Paul seems to have this imagery in mind when he writes that Christ is the allotted portion of the new covenant saints.

    We are saved to be entitled to our respective portion of this Person Christ. And He is to the saved as a Promised Land. A Person is the great promised land.

    Traditional Christianity has usually interpreted the Good Land of Canaan to be Heaven. But this is not logical. For the Hebrews had to fight for Canaan. To be consistent the symbolism would mean that people go to Heaven and fight giants and evil empires to win Heaven.

    This is not the case. But to have another Person, Christ, compounded into our beings, we do have to fight the OLD nature in order to be fully occupied with living by the NEW divine nature. That is Christ dispensed into man.

    The imagery then fits. The Christ that is dispensed into man when he is justified is like a land of milk and honey and fruit and streams and hills and valleys beautiful with iron and everything needed for a whole new living.

    This rich Christ is the entitlement of the believers. And nothing should discourage them from coming into their right, their inheritance, their privilege.
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    19 Aug '17 13:09
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Jesus Christ is the divine and eternal entitlement of all Christians.

    I looked up the definition of entitlement and read -

    [quote] en·ti·tle·ment
    inˈtīdlmənt,enˈtīdlmənt/Submit
    noun
    the fact of having a right to something.
    "full entitlement to fees and maintenance should be offered"
    synonyms: right, prerogative, claim; More
    the amount to which ...[text shortened]...
    Come and enjoy Christ the ultimate divine and eternal entitlement.
    Its never going to stop !!
    To all Chrtians?

    Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
  8. Standard membersonship
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    19 Aug '17 13:585 edits
    Originally posted by @eladar
    To all Chrtians?

    Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
    To all Chrtians?


    You don't think the book of Colossians is written to all Christians ?
    I do.

    The letter is addressed to " the saints in Colossae and faithful brothers in Christ Jesus."

    God sovereignly included this letter as a benefit to the universal church. Don't you think that includes all Christians, who should know that Christ is the allotted portion of all the saints ?


    Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’


    There is nothing in this important passage which contradicts that Christ is the allotted portion of the saints.

    I wrote that Paul's imagery should remind us of the good land of Canaan being apportioned up to the Hebrews in the book of Joshua.

    The apportionment of this land did not mean that none of the tribes were never [edited]
    disciplined or chastised by God latter, did it?

    After the allotted portion was given to the tribe of Dan, they, for example, did undergo some discipline by God.

    The name of the tribe of Dan was even dropped from the list of the twelve tribes temporarily. But we know that their allotment was not lost forever, because the name of Dan appears again in the list of the twelve inheriting tribes in the future.

    The word knew there where the Lord says "I never knew you" appears in Romans 7 translated as acknowledge.

    " For what I work out, I do not acknowledge ... " (See Romans 7:15)


    There is means that Paul did not approve of what he was doing.
    His behavior, of course he KNEW about. But his behavior he did not acknowledge. He did not approve of what he was doing.

    I think this is the sense of the word used in Matthew 7:23

    " ... Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord,

    was it not in Your name that we prophesied, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name did many works of power ?

    And then I will declare to them: I never knew you. Depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness."


    Of course the Christ rejecting man will not inherit the kingdom of the millennial time.
    But many Christians who did things but not according to the proper way of the Father will be disciplined.

    Jesus is saying that though they did things He did not acknowledge, did not approve of their methods. He knew them. But He did not approve of their ways of supposedly working for Christ.

    As the tribe of Dan was temporarily departed from the list of the twelve tribes to reappear latter after some discipline, so some of us Christians will also be dealt with by the Lord Jesus at His judgment seat.

    Correspondingly, though the book of Colossians also contains exhortations and warning which Christians can choose to or not to heed, it doesn't change the fact that Paul announces that regardless Christ is the allotted portion of the saints.

    The Father has qualified them so.
    Whether the Christians rightfully reaches for what has been allotted to him or her is another story.

    Sooner or latter they will enjoy this rich entitlement.
    The spirit of the epistle is "Why not sooner rather than latter?"
  9. Standard membersonship
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    19 Aug '17 14:13
    How do I know that the portion or entitlement of the saints here in is ultimate?

    We can know because Christ is described in such ultimate terms in Colossians.

    All the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are in Him.
    He is the FIRST in the original creation.
    He is the FIRST in the new creation.
    He is the image of the invisible God.
    Through Him and unto Him were all things created.

    He is ultimate.

    The allotted portion of the saints is One whom God has made to have FIRST PLACE in ALL things. Right here -

    "And He is the Head of the Body, the church; He is the beginning, the Firstborn from the dead,

    that He Himself might have the first place in all things." (Col 2:18)


    Christ is the Ultimate then. And Paul says that the saints are made full in Him.

    "And you have been made full in Him, who is the head of all rule and authority" (Col. 2:10)


    Every born again person will reach out to enjoy this vast treasure of a living allotment sooner or latter. The spirit of the epistles is that we should sooner rather than latter.
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    www.sonshipblog.com
  11. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    19 Aug '17 15:44
    Originally posted by @sonship
    How do I know that the portion or entitlement of the saints here in is ultimate?

    We can know because Christ is described in such ultimate terms in [b]Colossians
    .

    All the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are in Him.
    He is the FIRST in the original creation.
    He is the FIRST in the new creation.
    He is the image of the invisible God.
    Through Him ...[text shortened]... otment sooner or latter. The spirit of the epistles is that we should sooner rather than latter.[/b]
    Again, here we have you sneaking 'entitlement' in through the backdoor.

    You ask, "How do I know that the portion or entitlement of the saints here in is ultimate?"

    The 'or entitlement' is completely of your own manufacture. You have only provided biblical support for 'portion.' - If entitlement is what you believe to be the case then provide biblical evidence to support it.

    Take for example a father who cuts a cake in to equal portions for his children. Are the children 'entitled' to their portion, irrespective of their behaviour? - Can you provide biblical support that they are?
  12. Standard membersonship
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    19 Aug '17 16:185 edits
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    Again, here we have you sneaking 'entitlement' in through the backdoor.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I am being a tad provocative.

    Hey, where were you when we had "Jesus the Sexist" and "Jesus the Insulter" and "Jesus would be a Republican" ?

    Yes, I the title is a bit provocative to some people.
    But I am also trying to be constructive.

    Christians have to realize that we all have a common enemy - the fallen corrupted self.


    You ask, "How do I know that the portion or entitlement of the saints here in is ultimate?"

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    That's right.
    What of it ?


    The 'or entitlement' is completely of your own manufacture. You have only provided biblical support for 'portion.' - If entitlement is what you believe to be the case then provide biblical evidence to support it.


    I gave some appropriate words (synonyms) for the word entitlement.

    The comparison to the word portion is best understood I think, theologically.
    The backround of Paul's usage of the phrase the allotted portion of the saints I think was his comparison of the dividing up of the good land of Canaan to each tribes entitled lot.


    Take for example a father who cuts a cake in to equal portions for his children.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Funny you should mention that.
    The first time I noticed the word portion as in "the allotted portion of the saints" what I envisioned was a Betty Crocker commercial where some tasty cake is being sliced up in different portions for desert.

    I thought - "That is interesting. Christ is like a cake being portioned out at desert ?"

    So I appreciate your comparison. A bit latter I came to see how the whole Bible best interprets itself. And the allotted portion of the saints should remind us of the Good Land of Canaan being divided up by lots and distributed to the Israelites in the book of Joshua[b].

    Since you are perhaps not a Bible reading man, you are see [b]portion of the saints
    and think of other things.

    Doesn't hurt to expand.


    Are the children 'entitled' to their portion, irrespective of their behaviour? - Can you provide biblical support that they are?

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I don't think you case is too hefty there. Paul says that the Father has qualified the believers. It is from that phrase "qualified you for a share" from which i derive the bases to think of entitlement.

    Just a few verses afterwards he explains HOW the Father has so qualified the believers. It is through the redemption of Christ.

    " ... who has qualified you for a share of the allotted portion of t he saints in the light ... In whom [Christ] we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins." (See vs. 12,14)


    He qualified us for this eternal entitlement by becoming incarnated and dying a redemptive death on His cross. Otherwise no one could be qualified to this entitlement, to their allotted portion.

    At this point it would be good to see how other English versions have rendered Col. 1:12

    KJ21 giving thanks unto the Father, who hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light.
    ASV giving thanks unto the Father, who made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light;
    AMP giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints (God’s people) in the Light.
    AMPC Giving thanks to the Father, Who has qualified and made us fit to share the portion which is the inheritance of the saints (God’s holy people) in the Light.
    BRG Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
    CSB giving thanks to the Father, who has enabled you to share in the saints’ inheritance in the light.
    CEB and by giving thanks with joy to the Father. He made it so you could take part in the inheritance, in light granted to God’s holy people.
    CJB giving thanks to the Father for having made you fit to share in the inheritance of his people in the light.
    CEV I pray that you will be grateful to God for letting you have part in what he has promised his people in the kingdom of light.


    DARBY giving thanks to the Father, who has made us fit for sharing the portion of the saints in light,
    DLNT giving-thanks to the Father having qualified you for your part of the share of the saints in the light,
    DRA Giving thanks to God the Father, who hath made us worthy to be partakers of the lot of the saints in light:
    ERV and give thanks to the Father. He has made you able to have what he has promised to give all his holy people, who live in the light.


    ESVUK
    giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in light.

    EXB And you will joyfully give thanks [or …have patience with joy, giving thanks] to the Father who has made you able to have a share in ·all that he has prepared for his people in the kingdom of light


    As you can see most English versions seem to favor inheritance. But there are some notable exceptions.

    The main thing from which I have no second thoughts on, is that Christians are privileged by the qualification of God that this Person Christ would be apportioned out in pieces or lots or sections or segments and distributions.

    These rich entitlements are enjoyed now and throughout eternity.
    That is a infinitely valuable inheritance, an ultimate entitlement.
  13. Standard membersonship
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    19 Aug '17 16:442 edits
    So we have some pushback concerning the words portion as compared to entitlement.

    But the passage should be understood that in ourselves we would be fully unqualified to have this inheritance. God has caused the believers to be entitled to what they otherwise would be forever excluded from.

    Now this apportionment is also a PRIZE. And Paul's burden is that no one would rob the Christians of their prize - the prize of their allotted portion.

    The whole book is about the various philosophies, religious practices, asceticism, angel worship, Gnostic teaching and other distractions from Christ that had invaded the church.

    This is very relevant to today. The eloquent philosophies and mystic visions, practices and legalism seek to ROB the Christians of their prize. Paul warned of this.

    " Let no one purposely defraud you of your prize, ... " (v.18)


    He is saying "Don't let anyone, no matter how smart or eloquent, cheat you of your valuable PRIZE - Christ, this Ultimate Entitlement.

    " Beware that no one carries you off as spoil through his philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the elements of the world,

    and not according to Christ." (Col. 2:8)


    And why should the believers not be carried off as spoil from Jesus Christ ? It is because in Him dwells the fullness of all God is bodily - in Christ.

    "For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." (2:9)


    He is the Ultimate rich portion to each believer.
    The fullness of the Godhead dwells in Him. And He is the allotted portion of each saint to own as their prize.
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    19 Aug '17 17:26
    Can you name who any one regular poster in this forum who you think will actually read all this blurb?
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    It's worse than the excesses of Grampy Bobby.
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