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    04 Apr '14 01:181 edit
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  2. Joined
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    04 Apr '14 01:29
    Moonbus,
    You typed:
    --------------
    No. I'm saying that half of Christian doctrine is borrowed from pagan philosophy.
    --------------

    Where is the information for that conclusion?
    ^^^^

    And what "religious" doctrine of other religions say that. . .

    1) Man cannot earn his way to God?

    2) Man is a sinner destined for the lake of fire without redemption by grace through faith?

    3) Man must be given all the gifts of salvation without his earning them?

    4) God, Himself, will die for man's sins?

    5) The blood of Christ pays for mens' sin debts to God?
  3. Subscribermoonbus
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    06 Apr '14 21:441 edit
    KoP: "Where is the information for that conclusion? " It is not a conclusion; it is a well-documented historical fact. The Church itself has documented this. Look up any scholarly history of the Arian Heresy.

    One of many is Adrian Hastings, "A World History of Christianity," Cassell, 1999, ISBN 0-304-70438-7, pp. 46 - 55, regarding the Arian heresy and how it was resolved at the first three Ecumenical Councils held at Nicea (325 AD), Constantinople (381), and Ephesus (431). It was at these three Ecumenical Councils that the foundation for all subsequent Christian doctrine was formulated. One of the key issues to be resolved was the nature of Christ and the relationship of his nature to divinity on the one hand to humanity on the other--which is to say, how the incarnation is to be understood and formulated. There were three positions: a) Christ was a man (the Antiochene Church's position), b) Christ was God (the Alexandrian Church's position), and c) Christ was man and God (the Western or Latin Church's position). The third position won; the other two were denounced as heretical. The technical term for the third solution was "Homoousion" (two natures, one substance). The term comes from Greek philosophy. Why? Because there was no word for it in Aramaic or Hebrew, and no such word occurs in the Septuagint either. The concept of two natures co-inhering in one substance was incomprehensible in any language other than that of Greek philosophy (specifically, Plato). This was the only way to make Christianity intellectually coherent enough to be exportable to the gentiles. The Christian theologians who argued the case, Origen most notable among them, were well versed in greek philosophy; it was from Greek philosophy that they got the idea of "consubstantiaity" ("Homoousion" ) and made it plausible to the Roman bishops.

    See also the "Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church" entries under "Arianism", "Homoousion", "Origen" etc.

    Take the Greek philosophy out of Christianity, and you've got Jewish-gnosticism.
  4. Standard memberRJHinds
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    06 Apr '14 22:11
    Originally posted by moonbus
    No. I'm saying that half of Christian doctrine is borrowed from pagan philosophy.
    The apostle Paul, who the risen Christ assigned to go preach to the Greek and other gentiles started it all. He related their understanding of their pagan gods to the Christian beliefs. Later Christians built on this method of explanation so that we have what we have today.
  5. SubscriberSuzianne
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    07 Apr '14 16:30
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    wow I knew you had your own creation myths (abiogenesis), your own high priests and luminaries (Darwin, Dawkins etc), places where you can worship the God of Science (university campus), your own sacred books (Origin of the species, the God delusion etc), your own hymns (Imagine by Lennon) but to have your own tree of life, thats really something else.
    You know, we should all thank you for occasionally putting it in print that you have absolutely NO idea what you're talking about.
  6. Subscribermoonbus
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    07 Apr '14 16:571 edit
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    You know, we should all thank you for occasionally putting it in print that you have absolutely NO idea what you're talking about.
    We all need a negative reality check sometimes. It's a dirty job, but somebody's got to do it.
  7. Joined
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    08 Apr '14 00:171 edit
    Moonbus,
    When did the Arian thinking start?
  8. Standard memberRJHinds
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    08 Apr '14 04:231 edit
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    You know, we should all thank you for occasionally putting it in print that you have absolutely NO idea what you're talking about.
    I have to agree with robbie on this one. I do understand what he is talking about.
  9. Subscribermoonbus
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    08 Apr '14 05:25
    Originally posted by KingOnPoint
    Moonbus,
    When did the Arian thinking start?
    It started during the reign of the Emp. Constantine, ca. 320 AD. It exercised all the most influential Christian thinkers of the next two centuries, including St. Athanasias, Eusebius, St. Basil, St. Gregory (of Nazianzus) and St. Gregory (of Nyssa). The issue split the Western (Roman Catholic) Empire from the Eastern Orthodox Empire (Constantinople)--arguably the second most significant event in the early history of Christianity.
  10. Subscribermoonbus
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    08 Apr '14 05:30
    Robbie, do you mean your genealogical tree? Is that what you're on about?
  11. Joined
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    09 Apr '14 18:251 edit
    Moonbus,
    The time of these events were before, during, and a little after Christ's existence on the earth in human form. These help to show what believers of Christ and other people and Satan and demons were thinking about Christ. Therefore, these events occurred around 4 BC to 30 AD and some years after.

    King James Version
    =================

    John 20: 28
    And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

    John 1: 34
    And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

    Mark 8: 29-30
    And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ.

    John 11: 27
    She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

    Acts 8: 37
    And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

    Matthew 4: 3
    And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

    Matthew 8: 29
    And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

    Matthew 14: 33
    Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

    Matthew 27: 40
    And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.

    Matthew 26: 63-68
    But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

    Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

    Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

    What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.

    Then did they spit in his face, and buffeted him; and others smote him with the palms of their hands,

    Saying, Prophesy unto us, thou Christ, Who is he that smote thee?

    Mark 1: 1
    The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

    Luke 1: 35
    And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

    Hebrews 4: 14
    Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

    John 19: 7
    The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
  12. SubscriberSuzianne
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    09 Apr '14 21:08
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    I have to agree with robbie on this one. I do understand what he is talking about.
    Really? Do you think atheism is a religion too?

    That's just about the most asinine thing I've ever heard.
  13. Subscribermoonbus
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    09 Apr '14 23:25
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Really? Do you think atheism is a religion too?

    That's just about the most asinine thing I've ever heard.
    I think he was saying that his family tree (genealogical tree) does not contain any apes. I could be wrong; he may have been on about something else; the thread has drifted pretty far afield.
  14. SubscriberSuzianne
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    09 Apr '14 23:32
    Originally posted by moonbus
    I think he was saying that his family tree (genealogical tree) does not contain any apes. I could be wrong; he may have been on about something else; the thread has drifted pretty far afield.
    Ron was referencing robbie's post that said (minus the specifics in his parentheses): "wow I knew you had your own creation myths, your own high priests and luminaries, places where you can worship the God of Science, your own sacred books, your own hymns but to have your own tree of life, thats really something else."

    Ron then said he agreed with robbie, thus stimulating my post.
  15. Standard memberRJHinds
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    10 Apr '14 02:36
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Really? Do you think atheism is a religion too?

    That's just about the most asinine thing I've ever heard.
    Uh Oh am I in trouble with the lady?
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