1. Felicific Forest
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    17 Jan '08 19:341 edit
    " ......................... "

    Benedict XVI asks himself: "What is the university? What is its task?" Then he goes on: "The true, intimate, origin of the university lies in the longing for knowledge which is inherent to mankind. Humans want to know what it is that surrounds them. They want truth".

    "Truth is never just theoretical. ... Truth means more than knowing. Knowledge of truth has as its goal knowledge of good. ... What is the good that makes us true? The truth makes us good, and goodness is truth. This is the optimism that lives in Christian faith, because [that faith] has been granted the vision of the 'Logos', creative Reason which in the incarnation of God was revealed as Good, as Goodness itself".

    In this context, the Holy Father presents the example of medieval universities in which, he notes, faculties of philosophy and theology "were entrusted with searching for the truth about man in its entirety and, alongside that, with the task of ensuring that awareness of truth remained high". Then, quoting a formula used at the Council of Chalcedon to describe Christology, Benedict XVI affirms that theology and philosophy must co-exist "without confusion and without separation.

    "Without confusion", he adds, "means that each of the two disciplines must conserve its own identity. Philosophy must remain a real search for reason, with its own inherent freedoms and responsibilities", while theology "must continue to draw from that wealth of knowledge which it did not invent itself ... and which, since it can never be totally consumed by reflection, always provides fresh stimulus for thought".

    "Without separation", he explains, means that "philosophy does not start afresh from zero each time in the mind of the thinker, but is part of the great dialogue of historical wisdom", in which "it must not close itself to what religions - and in particular the Christian faith - have received and donated to humanity as signs along its journey".

    "Much of what theology and faith say", Pope Benedict observes, "can be absorbed only within the context of faith itself and therefore cannot be presented as a requirement to those people for whom this faith remains inaccessible. Yet at the same time it is true that the message of Christian faith ... is a purifying force for reason, ... an encouragement towards truth, and therefore a force against the pressures of power and interest groups".

    The Holy Father also refers to modern times in which "new dimensions of knowledge" have opened up, represented in universities in two main areas: "the natural sciences, ... and the historical and human sciences". He also notes with satisfaction how "the recognition of the rights and the dignity of man" has increased.

    However, despite this, "the danger of falling into inhumanity can never be completely eliminated", in particular "the danger facing the Western world ... is that man today, precisely because of the immensity of his knowledge and power, surrenders before the question of truth. ... This means that, in the end, reason gives way before the pressure of other interests and the lure of efficiency, and is forced to recognise this as the ultimate criterion".

    "There is a danger", the Pope observes, "that philosophy, no longer feeling itself capable of playing its true role, may degenerate into positivism; that theology with its message to reason, may be confined to the private sphere of a particular group, large or small as it may be".

    In closing his discourse, Benedict XVI asks: "What does the Pope have to do or to say to the university?" And he answers: "Certainly he must not seek to impose on others, in an authoritarian way, a faith which can only be given in freedom.

    "Over and above his ministry as a pastor in the Church and on the basis of the intrinsic nature of such pastoral ministry", the Pope concludes, "it his job to maintain high the awareness of truth, inviting reason ever and anew to seek truth, goodness, God and, on this journey, encouraging it to notice the valuable lights that have arisen during the history of the Christian faith".

    AC/TRUTH/LA SAPIENZA VIS 080117 (1100)
  2. Joined
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    17 Jan '08 19:41
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    " ......................... "

    Benedict XVI asks himself: "What is the university? What is its task?" Then he goes on: "The true, intimate, origin of the university lies in the longing for knowledge which is inherent to mankind. Humans want to know what it is that surrounds them. They want truth".

    "Truth is never just theoretical. ... Truth means more ...[text shortened]... VIS 080117 (1100)
    Do I detect in you a longing to return to 'better' times, where medieval thinking and knowledge ruled supreme?
  3. Felicific Forest
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    17 Jan '08 19:47
    Originally posted by snowinscotland
    Do I detect in you a longing to return to 'better' times, where medieval thinking and knowledge ruled supreme?
    No. Neither can you detect this longing in the article I presented.

    Just read what it says, not what you think it says.
  4. Donationbbarr
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    17 Jan '08 20:15
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    " ......................... "

    Benedict XVI asks himself: "What is the university? What is its task?" Then he goes on: "The true, intimate, origin of the university lies in the longing for knowledge which is inherent to mankind. Humans want to know what it is that surrounds them. They want truth".

    "Truth is never just theoretical. ... Truth means more ...[text shortened]... VIS 080117 (1100)
    From the Consumer Guide:

    America's best-selling minivan is built from the same design as Chrysler's Town & Country. Caravan is unchanged for 2007 and comes as a regular-length model or as the extended-length Grand Caravan. Both offer SE and SXT trim and have seven-passenger seating. The regular-length SE is available with a 150-hp 4-cyl engine or a 170-hp 3.3-liter V6. Regular-length SXT and Grand SE come with the 170-hp V6. Grand SXT has a 200-hp 3.8-liter V6. A 4-speed automatic is the only transmission. Traction control is standard on Grand SXT, unavailable otherwise. No antiskid system is offered. ABS is standard on Grands, optional on regular-length SXTs. A driver knee airbag is standard on all Caravans. Curtain side airbags that cover all three seating rows are optional. Standard on the Grand SXT is Dodge's Stow 'n Go 2nd- and 3rd-row seats that fold into floorwells. With the seats raised, the wells provide storage space. Other available features include power sliding side doors, power liftgate, power-adjustable pedals, DVD entertainment, navigation system, integrated child seats, and wireless cell phone link.

    Competition

    Consumer Guide® Automotive places each vehicle into one of 18 classes based on size, price, and market position. Long the choice as a family hauler, Minivans are easily the smartest use of space for passengers and cargo. These vehicles offer a fantastic blend of comfort, convenience, and safety features for the modern family.

    Our Best Buy is the Honda Odyssey. Our Recommended picks are the Chrysler Town & Country, Dodge Caravan, Hyundai Entourage, Kia Sedona, and Toyota Sienna.

    New or significantly redesigned models include the Hyundai Entourage and Nissan Quest.

    News

    Chrysler Group minivans go bold and boxy with an expected 2008 makeover. Sources say Caravans draw on the burly look of Dodge's Charger/Magnum, while Chrysler will give its Town & Countrys some 300 sedan visuals. All models will offer roll-down rear-door windows for the first time, plus restyled Stow 'n Go interiors. This updating may enlarge some dimensions, but probably not too much, as the basic platform is reportedly unchanged. That, in turn, suggests engines could be carryover too, though perhaps mated to a new 5- or 6-speed automatic transmission. Short- and long-body models will continue.
  5. Standard memberRed Night
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    17 Jan '08 20:17
    Originally posted by ivanhoe

    Just read what it says, not what you think it says.
    If only....
  6. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    17 Jan '08 22:051 edit
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    " ......................... "

    Benedict XVI asks himself: "What is the university? What is its task?" Then he goes on: "The true, intimate, origin of the university lies in the longing for knowledge which is inherent to mankind. Humans want to know what it is that surrounds them. They want truth".

    "Truth is never just theoretical. ... Truth means more VIS 080117 (1100)
    Could you put this in your own words? Why do all of the pope's quotes read like they are just profound sounding terms strung together in random permutations, void of any actual semantic content?

    I mean, seriously, what if anything does this mess mean:

    Truth means more than knowing. Knowledge of truth has as its goal knowledge of good. ... What is the good that makes us true? The truth makes us good, and goodness is truth. This is the optimism that lives in Christian faith
  7. Joined
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    17 Jan '08 22:10
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    No. Neither can you detect this longing in the article I presented.

    Just read what it says, not what you think it says.
    Just a few words, oh master... from your own lips?
  8. Joined
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    17 Jan '08 23:124 edits
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    I mean, seriously, what if anything does this mess mean:

    Truth means more than knowing. Knowledge of truth has as its goal knowledge of good. ... What is the good that makes us true? The truth makes us good, and goodness is truth. This is the optimism that lives in Christian faith
    The actual quote, which is more comprehensible:

    Man wants to know; he wants the truth.Truth pertains first and foremost to seeing and understanding theoria as it is called in the Greek tradition. But truth is not only theoretic. In correlating the Beatitudes from the Sermon on the Mountain and the gifts of the Holy Spirit mentioned in Isaiah 11, Augustine asserted the reciprocity of scientia and tristitia. For him just knowing is source of sadness. In fact those who only see and learn all that happens in the world end up becoming sad. But the truth means more than knowledge. The purpose of knowing the truth is to know what is good. This is also the sense of Socrates’ way of questioning: What good thing makes us true? Truth makes us good and goodness is true. This optimism dwells in the Christian faith because it was allowed to see the Logos, the creative Reason that, in God’s incarnation, revealed itself as that which is Good, as Goodness itself.


    http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=56017
  9. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    17 Jan '08 23:40
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    The actual quote, which is more comprehensible:

    Man wants to know; he wants the truth.Truth pertains first and foremost to seeing and understanding theoria as it is called in the Greek tradition. But truth is not only theoretic. In correlating the Beatitudes from the Sermon on the Mountain and the gifts of the Holy Spirit mentioned in Isaiah 11, ...[text shortened]... h is Good, as Goodness itself.


    http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=56017
    Are you saying the VIS story misquotes the Pope?

    Don't you suppose that would be against their policy, sort of like how it would be against the Vatican's policy to sell bottles of holy water as souvenirs?
  10. Joined
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    17 Jan '08 23:56
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Are you saying the VIS story misquotes the Pope?

    Don't you suppose that would be against their policy, sort of like how it would be against the Vatican's policy to sell bottles of holy water as souvenirs?
    Are you saying the VIS story misquotes the Pope?

    I do not know whether it is exactly misquoted. Rather the quote is not altogether clear without the context. I had to correct my interpretation once I found the whole speech.

    Don't you suppose that would be against their policy, sort of like how it would be against the Vatican's policy to sell bottles of holy water as souvenirs?

    Misquoting, however, is not a mortal sin. And nor is there any canonical measure against it.
  11. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    18 Jan '08 00:12
    Originally posted by Conrau K


    I do not know whether it is exactly misquoted. Rather the quote is not altogether clear without the context.
    What are you talking about? Quotes are context-free.

    Either the Pope said the words attributed to him by the VIS or he did not.
  12. Joined
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    18 Jan '08 00:301 edit
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    What are you talking about? Quotes are context-free.

    Either the Pope said the words attributed to him by the VIS or he did not.
    What are you talking about?

    The meaning of the quotes is unclear given the large extent of omission and juxtaposition of un-related sentences.

    Quotes are context-free.

    Yes, but the meaning of the quote is not.

    Either the Pope said the words attributed to him by the VIS or he did not.

    They are the words of the Pope, as far as I can tell without an official translation of his speech released.

    Exactly what controversy are you trying to find now?
  13. Donationkirksey957
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    18 Jan '08 00:471 edit
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Could you put this in your own words? Why do all of the pope's quotes read like they are just profound sounding terms strung together in random permutations, void of any actual semantic content?

    I mean, seriously, what if anything does this mess mean:

    Truth means more than knowing. Knowledge of truth has as its goal knowledge of good. ...[text shortened]... akes us good, and goodness is truth. This is the optimism that lives in Christian faith
    There is a very famous writer that I'm fond of who also happened to be Catholic. She (Flannery O'Conner) was once quoted as saying "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd." I kind of liked that. That made sense to me in some way.
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    18 Jan '08 12:35
    Originally posted by kirksey957
    There is a very famous writer that I'm fond of who also happened to be Catholic. She (Flannery O'Conner) was once quoted as saying "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd." I kind of liked that. That made sense to me in some way.
    Then you must know a whole lot of truth! 😉
  15. Donationkirksey957
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    19 Jan '08 00:51
    Originally posted by josephw
    Then you must know a whole lot of truth! 😉
    Read this here article and see if it won't make a Christian out of you.

    http://www.firstthings.com/article.php3?id_article=3579
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