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SecondSon, continuing about Philadelphia -
This is a church of love. Philadelphia means "brotherly love". This is not a church of many spiritual giants. This not a church of an elite super spiritual powerful Christians.
She has "a little power" but she has been faithful and enduring and loving one another. Before her is a door no one can open except Jesus and not one can close except Jesus.
That is the door from the church age into the kingdom age.
"And to the messenger of the church in Philadelphia wrote: These things says the Holy One, the true One, the One who has the key of David, the One who opens and no one will shut, and shuts and no one opens." (Rev. 3:7)
I believe that the closing age before Christ's second coming is not an age of spiritual giants. Just many "little folks" in Jesus who have only a little power yet are faithful and loving of one another - Philadelphia.
You know how important love is to God from Cor. 13.
And you should know that love is the expression of divine life.
We know that we have passed from death to life because we love the brethren.
We are little people in Christ.
We are not an elite of super strong giants of faith.
We are little believers with love for one another in the brotherhood and faithfulness to not deny the Lord's name.
We may have a clear way to overcome and enter into the next age of the millennial kingdom.
Enough for this post.
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@sonship saidRead your previous three posts. Several times. I follow what you're saying, that is, as far as I am able to grasp the abstract concepts and marry them with the scriptures.
SecondSon, continuing about Philadelphia -
This is a church of love. Philadelphia means "brotherly love". This is not a church of many spiritual giants. This not a church of an elite super spiritual powerful Christians.
She has "a little power" but she has been faithful and enduring and loving one another. Before her is a door no one can open except Je ...[text shortened]... ear way to overcome and enter into the next age of the millennial kingdom.
Enough for this post.
There's something deeply spiritual about what you've said, yet seems too lofty, almost frightening in their implications.
I know we are spiritual beings, and apart from God only dust. Just how far have we fallen? Just what did Adam enjoy with God in his perfection. What faculties were the first man and woman endowed with that was lost?
I believe we will know once again when this mortal puts on immortality.
Until then, like the apostle Paul said, "But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Philippians 3:7-14
Until then, like the apostle Paul said, "But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Philippians 3:7-14
Amen to that.
It is almost as if the Apostle Paul is here on the Internet Discussion Forum with us.
@secondson saidI love that passaged of scripture it highlights the need to press on, that we may
Read your previous three posts. Several times. I follow what you're saying, that is, as far as I am able to grasp the abstract concepts and marry them with the scriptures.
There's something deeply spiritual about what you've said, yet seems too lofty, almost frightening in their implications.
I know we are spiritual beings, and apart from God only dust. Just how far h ...[text shortened]... press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Philippians 3:7-14
win Christ. Unlike the doctrine of once saved always saved, where some could just
fall into no matter what I do I'm saved, pushing towards Christ is the calling that
we may know Him, and know Him better.
I have been hearing this message in a variety of places lately.
@sonship said1 Corinthians 5:3
@SecondSon
[quote] Until then, like the apostle Paul said, "But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own ...[text shortened]... en to that.
It is almost as if the Apostle Paul is here on the Internet Discussion Forum with us.
For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit,..
Oops! Out of context. 🙃
@kellyjay saidWell, after all, Paul is our apostle.
I love that passaged of scripture it highlights the need to press on, that we may
win Christ. Unlike the doctrine of once saved always saved, where some could just
fall into no matter what I do I'm saved, pushing towards Christ is the calling that
we may know Him, and know Him better.
I have been hearing this message in a variety of places lately.
He said many very profound things. Quite a genius. As Moses was to the Jews in the Old Testament, so is Paul to the gentile world in the new.
So I've heard.
@secondson saidHe had a foundation training of the law he spent his whole life learning, but when Jesus called him into the faith his eyes were opened so he could preach Jesus with all the OT as he explained what God was doing in the NT.
Well, after all, Paul is our apostle.
He said many very profound things. Quite a genius. As Moses was to the Jews in the Old Testament, so is Paul to the gentile world in the new.
So I've heard.
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@sonship saidI really don't have a horse in the race other than to say it concerns me that the attitude I seem to get from many Christians is that God would never let them endure the horrors of what we read in Revelation, like the rounding up of those who won't take the mark and killed, so they assume God will just rapture them home.
This thread is dedicated to the few thoughtful and respectful posters who can agree or disagree without being uncivil about discourse.
As you can plainly see I have presupposed a rapture which will involve a portion of the total number of Christians on the earth.
I predict that if we are living at the time of Jesus's secretive rapture, some of the Christians wil ...[text shortened]... rothers or sisters of anyone who doesn't agree with what I write here, I still love you in the Lord.
Historically, God has allowed that to happen to Christians, so I don't know why that has changed.
No, Christians are even today "thrown to the lions". God let is letting them do this and has let them do it. The better question would be, why are you a Christian? If the reason is just to have a nice easy life, then perhaps Christianity is not for you.
@whodey saidI agree it is because of the Love of God we are called not to please ourselves. To know Him, He is the best part of life!
I really don't have a horse in the race other than to say it concerns me that the attitude I seem to get from many Christians is that God would never let them endure the horrors of what we read in Revelation, like the rounding up of those who won't take the mark and killed, so they assume God will just rapture them home.
Historically, God has allowed that to happen to Chris ...[text shortened]... hristian? If the reason is just to have a nice easy life, then perhaps Christianity is not for you.
@whodey saidI think you're confusing the wrath of man with the wrath of God.
I really don't have a horse in the race other than to say it concerns me that the attitude I seem to get from many Christians is that God would never let them endure the horrors of what we read in Revelation, like the rounding up of those who won't take the mark and killed, so they assume God will just rapture them home.
Historically, God has allowed that to happen to Chris ...[text shortened]... hristian? If the reason is just to have a nice easy life, then perhaps Christianity is not for you.
Yes Christians suffer persecution in the most horrific ways, at the hands of man, but God will not allow His children to suffer the wrath that God will pour out on this unbelieving world during the last half of the tribulation period.
As Paul says, we are not appointed unto wrath. God's wrath.
@kellyjay saidI've heard tell that Paul's epistles contain the marching orders for the church in this the "dispensation of the age of grace".
He had a foundation training of the law he spent his whole life learning, but when Jesus called him into the faith his eyes were opened so he could preach Jesus with all the OT as he explained what God was doing in the NT.
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Yes Christians suffer persecution in the most horrific ways, at the hands of man, but God will not allow His children to suffer the wrath that God will pour out on this unbelieving world during the last half of the tribulation period.
As Paul says, we are not appointed unto wrath. God's wrath.
Paul's warning about is aimed and keeping the believers from ending up where they are not supposed to be appointed.
The exhortation is designed to persuade the hearers not to inadvertently end up in a situation to which God has not appointed for them. The implication is that it could happen if they are negligent.
Think of a similar exhortation about fornication in First Thess. 4:3.
For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from fornication." (1 Thess. 4:3)
The warning is for the Christian to NOT end up in the situation which is not God's will for them.
It is not a promise that it is impossible for them to be involved in fornication.
Now consider the verse you mentioned.
But since we are of the day, let us be sober, putting on the breatplate of daith and love and a helmet, the hope of salvation.
For God did not appoint us to wrath but to the obtaining of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thess. 5:8,9)
Wrath from God does not have to be of only one kind - eternal punishment.
If it is impossible for the Christian to be found in a situation involving God's anger it would not be necessary to instruct them about putting on the armor of spiritual warfare in verse 8.
Therefore I would not use First Thess. 5:8,9 as some kind of guarantee that Christians could not be on the earth during a time when His wrath is being poured out.