Christianity and logic

It's mildly entertaining to read the posts of people here trying explain, prove, or disprove Christianity using logic or reason. It doesn't work that way folks.Christianity and the teaching of Christ are outside the realm of human reasoning. There are some things we have to take on faith... speaking of which faith is a gift, you either have it, or you don't. You can debate the subject of you wish, but in the end, it changes nothing.

Originally posted by bill718
It's mildly entertaining to read the posts of people here trying explain, prove, or disprove Christianity using logic or reason. It doesn't work that way folks.Christianity and the teaching of Christ are outside the realm of human reasoning. There are some things we have to take on faith... speaking of which faith is a gift, you either have it, or you don't. You can debate the subject of you wish, but in the end, it changes nothing.

Isaiah 44:19:

"No one stops to think, no one has the knowledge or understanding to say,
'Half of it I used for fuel; I even baked bread over its coals, I roasted meat and I ate. Shall I make a detestable thing from what is left? Shall I bow down to a block of wood?'"

Here, the Biblical god wants people to use common sense, rationale and reason in order to conclude that worshiping something obviously not real is a stupid thing to do. Using that same reasoning and logic that the Bible claims god wants, many people have concluded that a religion where a talking snake tricked a woman into bringing mankind's downfall by eating a fruit, is also false.

Originally posted by bill718
It's mildly entertaining to read the posts of people here trying explain, prove, or disprove Christianity using logic or reason.

They have little choice but try as this is a debate and discussion forum and they interact with people with different beliefs/non-believers. It's a good thing that they do because it makes this place interesting a lot of the time..

Originally posted by bill718
There are some things we have to take on faith...

Why do you have to take them?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Why do you have to take them?

Perhaps because hope springs eternal? 😛

I don't agree with the OP at all.

The Bible is full of teaching the merits of Wisdom (aka reason and logic) and the perils of being foolish. Especially Proverbs, but also NT.

Paul instructs his readers to be : ready at all times to give a reasonable explanation for why you believe what you believe (my paraphrase, but you will know the verse I am referring to).

This is why I so enjoyed visteds thread on reductio absurdum.

There are so many different versions of what is Absolute Truth (just compare dasa with RJH) that people still today kill each other for that.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if people were to say: " this is what I believe the Truth to be, given this or that circumstance, experience or teaching"

If that were the case, discussions with anybody holding a particular faith or pov would actually be meaningful, because, let's face it, everybody DOES have a reason why they believe what they believe. Even FMF and twhitehead ! 😀

Originally posted by bill718
It's mildly entertaining to read the posts of people here trying explain, prove, or disprove Christianity using logic or reason. It doesn't work that way folks.Christianity and the teaching of Christ are outside the realm of human reasoning. There are some things we have to take on faith... speaking of which faith is a gift, you either have it, or you don't. You can debate the subject of you wish, but in the end, it changes nothing.

You could say the same regarding poiitical ideology. Religion, like political ideology, are constructs that people swear by in relation to what is the best way to conduct ourselves and live our lives. I don't think there is convincing anyone of anything, nor do I think anyone should be forced to believe anything, unlike many political advocates who wish to force the masses to do their bidding or those who adhere to religious Sharia law.

There is no real way to prove one ideology is above another, only faith.

God is the only one that has the power to change hearts, not man.

Originally posted by whodey
You could say the same regarding poiitical ideology. Religion, like political ideology, are constructs that people swear by in relation to what is the best way to conduct ourselves and live our lives. I don't think there is convincing anyone of anything, nor do I think anyone should be forced to believe anything, unlike many political advocates who wish to ...[text shortened]... above another, only faith.

God is the only one that has the power to change hearts, not man.

Christian logic, an oxymoron.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Christian logic, an oxymoron.

If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?

(A random oxymoron, brought to you by Ghost of a Duke).

Originally posted by whodey
You could say the same regarding poiitical ideology. Religion, like political ideology, are constructs that people swear by in relation to what is the best way to conduct ourselves and live our lives.

Possibly. On the other hand, there are certainly political beliefs that stand on a foundation of lies and misinformation (most Republican ideas in the US today, for instance). Likewise, there are religious beliefs that cannot be sustained in the light of competent reading of the Bible (I'm thinking of Fundamentalism and Jehovah's Witnesses), and others that defy known history in their sacred texts (the Book of Mormon).

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?

They're on the stage as well, also living out their own performances.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?

(A random oxymoron, brought to you by Ghost of a Duke).

Or better yet, if all the world is a stage, where are the wheels?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?

(A random oxymoron, brought to you by Ghost of a Duke).

As You Like It, Act II, Scene VII, William Shakespeare

"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances,
And one man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages. At first, the infant,
Mewling and puking in the nurse's arms.
Then the whining schoolboy, with his satchel
And shining morning face, creeping like snail
Unwillingly to school. And then the lover,
Sighing like furnace, with a woeful ballad
Made to his mistress' eyebrow. Then a soldier,
Full of strange oaths and bearded like the pard,
Jealous in honor, sudden and quick in quarrel,
Seeking the bubble reputation
Even in the cannon's mouth. And then the justice,
In fair round belly with good capon lined,
With eyes severe and beard of formal cut,
Full of wise saws and modern instances;
And so he plays his part. The sixth age shifts
Into the lean and slippered pantaloon,
With spectacles on nose and pouch on side;
His youthful hose, well saved, a world too wide
For his shrunk shank, and his big manly voice,
Turning again toward childish treble, pipes
And whistles in his sound. Last scene of all,
That ends this strange eventful history,
Is second childishness and mere oblivion,
Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything."

Originally posted by vivify
Isaiah 44:19:

"No one stops to think, no one has the knowledge or understanding to say,
'Half of it I used for fuel; I even baked bread over its coals, I roasted meat and I ate. Shall I make a detestable thing from what is left? Shall I bow down to a block of wood?'"

Here, the Biblical god wants people to use common sense, rationale and reason in orde ...[text shortened]... talking snake tricked a woman into bringing mankind's downfall by eating a fruit, is also false.

Logic and reason will lead one to the conclusion that snakes don't talk, they do not have vocal chords sophisticated enough to form human speech. Therefore logic and reason will lead one to conclude that in the garden of eden the snake was only made to appear to talk. This again is backed up by Biblical evidence which states that the original serpent was a Satanic creature. Logic and reason will therefore lead one to the sound deduction that he simply utilised a snake in the same way that a puppet master utilizes a puppet. It therefore becomes clear that the assumption that a snake talked is itself false being based on nothing more than a supposition concerning the Genesis account. Logic and reason has lead us to expose the heresy.

We are frequently told here by certain posters that the Bible constitutes evidence for the truth of Christian dogma. A soon as someone makes that claim, he has entered a universe of discourse in which reason and logic are appropriate means of analyzing and verifying such claims. As soon as Christians stop claiming they have any evidence for the truth of their religion and just leave it at "it's a matter of faith", I for one will stop showing them where their reasons and their logic are flawed.

EDIT: See for example Hind's concurrent thread, 20 Reasons Christianity is True.