19 Aug 12
Christians let themselves be ruled by clerics from the council of Nicea hundreds of years after Christ died. They decided what we in the 21st century is your god's word. So you can't read the Gospel of Judas or the Gnostic gospels because people 1800 years ago just said you can't.
And you christians think you think for yourselves. Amazing dichotomy you have there.
19 Aug 12
Originally posted by sonhouseFirst of all Gnosticism is complete crap. Any of that dogma was not included because we are Christians, not Gnostics. The last thing I need clogging up my head is some foolish mix of Christianity and Buddhism. Such heresy has no place in Christendom, and I really doubt if there is a place for a Gospel of a man so weak that he was influenced by Satan to turn Christ over to the authorities.
Christians let themselves be ruled by clerics from the council of Nicea hundreds of years after Christ died. They decided what we in the 21st century is your god's word. So you can't read the Gospel of Judas or the Gnostic gospels because people 1800 years ago just said you can't.
And you christians think you think for yourselves. Amazing dichotomy you have there.
In this, the Council was correct in not including these works.
That being said, I do not believe they ever claimed that Christians could NOT read these works. It's just that they are far inferior to Christian canon, and have no place in it. They could not prevent me from reading it if I wanted to, but the fact is, I simply don't want to.
Your Christian-bashing agenda is showing, sonhouse. I know you don't care if it is, and in fact are proud of it, but let's at least be clear so that Christians can see where you are coming from and can treat what you say with the grain of salt it deserves.
Originally posted by SuzianneAll of which goes to prove my point, you are letting humans from 1800 years ago rule your life not the word of some god. There were plenty of other gospels lost to us now that were also rejected, you can never read them to decide if they were god inspired or not, and for instance, the recently discovered gospel of Judas is taken as complete nonsense now but it could just as easily been the story included in the works the council decided was god inspired but they couldn't allow that since so much effort had been instilled in the Judas Bad Guy story so in that case you are most definitely letting the council rule your life.
First of all Gnosticism is complete crap. Any of that dogma was not included because we are Christians, not Gnostics. The last thing I need clogging up my head is some foolish mix of Christianity and Buddhism. Such heresy has no place in Christendom, and I really doubt if there is a place for a Gospel of a man so weak that he was influenced by Satan to t see where you are coming from and can treat what you say with the grain of salt it deserves.
I didn't say you couldn't read the other gospels, just that you have let yourself be convinced a bunch of clerics from 300 years after the fact rule your life.
Your programming prevents you from seriously reading anything else that would cause even an inkling of doubt as to the god inspiredness of the bible as it is portrayed today.
Any new discovery of books rejected today will leave you with the opinion they were right, anything not in the 'real' bible is false no matter what is written by those new discoveries.
I would love nothing more than to destroy all man made religions and the wars they engender and the misery they have caused women in the mad rush of men to control peoples lives. If a god came down and told each and every human at the same time and in their own language, a real godly party line call, then I would believe. A human telling me some other human was purported to have been inspired by a god, forget it. If a god want to inspire me, let that god do it, not some human scam artist with an agenda to control humans.
19 Aug 12
Originally posted by sonhouseThere is no way the Gnostic Gospels were getting included given that they do not need a Church and/or Hierarchy. The Romans may have been ex Pagans but they knew a thing or three about Empire building.
Christians let themselves be ruled by clerics from the council of Nicea hundreds of years after Christ died. They decided what we in the 21st century is your god's word. So you can't read the Gospel of Judas or the Gnostic gospels because people 1800 years ago just said you can't.
And you christians think you think for yourselves. Amazing dichotomy you have there.
19 Aug 12
Originally posted by SuzianneIn his mind I'm sure he thinks that if he wrote a gospel and it was also excluded from the Bible it would be equally discriminating.
First of all Gnosticism is complete crap. Any of that dogma was not included because we are Christians, not Gnostics. The last thing I need clogging up my head is some foolish mix of Christianity and Buddhism. Such heresy has no place in Christendom, and I really doubt if there is a place for a Gospel of a man so weak that he was influenced by Satan to t ...[text shortened]... see where you are coming from and can treat what you say with the grain of salt it deserves.
WITH GOOD REASON.
19 Aug 12
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Originally posted by whodeySince I am not interested in an empire building agenda I would be the last person in the world to write such a tome.
In his mind I'm sure he thinks that if he wrote a gospel and it was also excluded from the Bible it would be equally discriminating.
WITH GOOD REASON.
I am talking about the bible tales rejected like the gospel of Judas just discovered.
You can't even IMAGINE a story being included in the bible that would have rescued the reputation of Judas, who, according to the council of Nicea HAS to be a bad guy for all times because the Bad Guy Judas story had been told so many times they would have lost major face to find out Judas was a good guy after all.
That is the way your life is ruled by the Council of Nicea pushing 2000 years later.
I feel sorry for what could have been decent brains. Now fogged up by the lies of what you THINK is Christianity.
19 Aug 12
Originally posted by SuzianneHang on a cotton pickin minute, surely Judas was God inspired as without his betrayal Jesus would not have been sacrificed for your sins, and presumably Christianity would not have come into existence, or did God have a plan B.
First of all Gnosticism is complete crap. Any of that dogma was not included because we are Christians, not Gnostics. The last thing I need clogging up my head is some foolish mix of Christianity and Buddhism. Such heresy has no place in Christendom, and I really doubt if there is a place for a Gospel of a man so weak that he was influenced by Satan to t ...[text shortened]... see where you are coming from and can treat what you say with the grain of salt it deserves.
19 Aug 12
Originally posted by sonhouseGod is already inspiring you to impress upon all theists the need to be free from violence, the need to be at peace with all other religions and above all to ask all of us to believe in the ultimate aim of science which is to bring happiness to humanity.
All of which goes to prove my point, you are letting humans from 1800 years ago rule your life not the word of some god. There were plenty of other gospels lost to us now that were also rejected, you can never read them to decide if they were god inspired or not, and for instance, the recently discovered gospel of Judas is taken as complete nonsense now but ...[text shortened]... nspire me, let that god do it, not some human scam artist with an agenda to control humans.
19 Aug 12
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Originally posted by kevcvs57I don't even know where to begin with this. No, wait, I do.
Hang on a cotton pickin minute, surely Judas was God inspired as without his betrayal Jesus would not have been sacrificed for your sins, and presumably Christianity would not have come into existence, or did God have a plan B.
Judas was inspired by God? Really? Judas was inspired by God to do evil?
Don't you believe in Free Will? He made a decision that immediately profited him. As man has been doing for millennia. But to do so as an apostle of Jesus, he probably had some outside urging, therefore I classified him as weak.
If it wasn't Judas, it would have been someone else. Surely the 30 silver reward for turning Jesus over would have grown until someone who saw Him would alert the authorities. He was relatively well-known by this time. The critical part was the Jewish authorities' decision to find Him and to hold Him for questioning. And it didn't take much for them to accuse Him of claiming to be God, which was blasphemy, leading many to feel that He had been judged guilty already, mainly to get Him out of their hair during the busy Passover season. Once they decided to find and accuse Him, He would have been shortly discovered and brought in, Judas or no Judas.
19 Aug 12
Originally posted by SuzianneI gather you haven't read the gospel of Judas.
I don't even know where to begin with this. No, wait, I do.
Judas was inspired by God? Really? Judas was inspired by God to do evil?
Don't you believe in Free Will? He made a decision that immediately profited him. As man has been doing for millennia. But to do so as an apostle of Jesus, he probably had some outside urging, therefore I classifie ...[text shortened]... nd and accuse Him, He would have been shortly discovered and brought in, Judas or no Judas.
19 Aug 12
Originally posted by SuzianneGeez, you deluded Christians can't even think nor see plain allegory right before your eyes. Jesus was of the tribe of Judah (according to the gospel), Judas name in Hebrew is Judah. Basically what is being said is that you are your own worst enemy. Either that or that Jesus had a split personality 🙂 For christ's sake you Christians are a dumb lot.
I don't even know where to begin with this. No, wait, I do.
Judas was inspired by God? Really? Judas was inspired by God to do evil?
Don't you believe in Free Will? He made a decision that immediately profited him. As man has been doing for millennia. But to do so as an apostle of Jesus, he probably had some outside urging, therefore I classifie ...[text shortened]... nd and accuse Him, He would have been shortly discovered and brought in, Judas or no Judas.
19 Aug 12
Originally posted by SuzianneThanks for trying to square that particular circle, but I am not sure about Bible God relying on the authorities ability to apprehend a wrong doer.
I don't even know where to begin with this. No, wait, I do.
Judas was inspired by God? Really? Judas was inspired by God to do evil?
Don't you believe in Free Will? He made a decision that immediately profited him. As man has been doing for millennia. But to do so as an apostle of Jesus, he probably had some outside urging, therefore I classifie ...[text shortened]... nd and accuse Him, He would have been shortly discovered and brought in, Judas or no Judas.
One of the reasons that punishments were so harsh was they had to do the heavy lifting in terms of deterrent due to it being very difficult to lay hands on people in a world without photofit or an actual police force.
"I really doubt if there is a place for a Gospel of a man so weak that he was influenced by Satan to turn Christ over to the authorities. "
Can you think of a reason why Satan would help kick start Christianity?
19 Aug 12
Originally posted by sonhouseI'm gonna leave a lot of your reply unanswered as it's merely your try to show that I am somehow "brainwashed". Thanks for giving me a benefit of a doubt that I may know my own mind. But then that isn't your agenda, is it?
I would love nothing more than to destroy all man made religions and the wars they engender and the misery they have caused women in the mad rush of men to control peoples lives.
I would love nothing more than to destroy all man made religions and the wars they engender and the misery they have caused women in the mad rush of men to control peoples lives.I see this as the core of your desire to "punish" religion. While a semi-noble sentiment, it fails for one reason. Free Will. Why are you so blindly driven by your own agenda that you cannot see that all the evils that have been propagated by man are driven and caused by EVIL MEN, not religion? Religion is the baby, not the bathwater. How can you seriously blame religion for the sins of weak and evil men? You ASSUME religion is evil, since you cannot bring yourself to believe there are any beings greater than man. Who's the arrogant one here, then? All these evils you ascribe to religion were brought about by weak and evil men. Yes, other men. Man is not so great then, is he?
19 Aug 12
Originally posted by kevcvs57Come to think of it, the best friend the church has had for the last 2000 years has been satan (if the bible were true). I mean think of it, who or should I say the threat of who, has kept 2000 years of Christians and their tithes going to the church?
Can you think of a reason why Satan would help kick start Christianity?
19 Aug 12
Originally posted by Phil HillI know, another clue is our Governments are supposed to hate 'al qaeda', Shhhh.
Come to think of it, the best friend the church has had for the last 2000 years has been satan (if the bible were true). I mean think of it, who or should I say the threat of who, has kept 2000 years of Christians and their tithes going to the church?