09 Oct 05
1. Why do we think we're right and everyone else is wrong? How do we know?
2. Why does one small decision (believing in Jesus and God's gift) let us go to heaven, while people who lived "better" lives than most Christians go to hell unless they make the same small (in comparasion to a lifetime of works) decision?
3. How do we know the whole Bible is God-breathed, and not just a set of "good lessons." I've heard because of prophesies, which I buy. But also because it agrees with itself. But of course wouldn't anyone compiling the Bible out of found scrolls put like ideas together?
I'm just struggling with these as of late. Talked to my ex to see how she's doing and doesn't consider herself Christian anymore. She says that her prayers never did anything, and saying that she doesn't want to believe that good people go to hell without accepting the gift.
There aren't any good groups in my church to join up with to help me with this I don't think, though I will keep an eye out. If you're the praying type, I guess we could both use it.
09 Oct 05
Originally posted by CoconutHey, don't take this the wrong way, but I commend you for your honesty in struggling with these questions. If you continue in this manner, even when it is painful, you can only stand to gain.
1. Why do we think we're right and everyone else is wrong? How do we know?
2. Why does one small decision (believing in Jesus and God's gift) let us go to heaven, while people who lived "better" lives than most Christians go to hell unless they make the same small (in comparasion to a lifetime of works) decision?
3. How do we know the whole Bible i ...[text shortened]... think, though I will keep an eye out. If you're the praying type, I guess we could both use it.
09 Oct 05
2 edits
Originally posted by Coconut1. Who said we were right and everyone else is wrong? As near as
1. Why do we think we're right and everyone else is wrong? How do we know?
2. Why does one small decision (believing in Jesus and God's gift) let us go to heaven, while people who lived "better" lives than most Christians go to hell unless they make the same small (in comparasion to a lifetime of works) decision?
3. How do we know the whole Bible i ...[text shortened]... think, though I will keep an eye out. If you're the praying type, I guess we could both use it.
I can tell the world is full of people who are broken and flawed,
hurt sinners.
2. It is more than just a gift of the right words to say in prayer, it is
God's life and righteousness that was given. If you don't have a
relationship with God through Jesus Christ what makes you think you
have the peace of God that passes all understanding? Please,
I'm not saying that you life will can not have pain in it, but that with
God you'll make it through. On top of that, who gets to say what is
and isn't good enough to enter God's kingdom? Whose life is good
enough on their own that God should be forced to let them enter,
who has lived a sin less life by God's standards, or even man's
for that matter?
3, Faith, God looks after His Word and will preform it.
Life isn't easy, and we are promised we would have troubles, but
we were also given promises that God would see us through. God does
not fail, He will keep His Word.
Kelly
09 Oct 05
Originally posted by KellyJay"I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man comes to the Father except by me."
1. Who said we were right and everyone else is wrong? As near as
I can tell the world is full of people who are broken and flawed,
hurt sinners.
I guess I'm wondering if any other religions boast the same statement, that there is only one way. No church I've ever been a part of says that accepting God's salvation is ONE of the ways to get to heaven. Nope, the only way. Meaning everyone else is wrong in their attempts to reach enlightenment.
Thanks KellyJ
09 Oct 05
Originally posted by Coconut1) I do not concern myself with the validity of others beliefs, only that my own make sense to me. As I have stated before in the forums, I came to my beliefs through life experiences, personal reflections, etc. I explored many paths before I came to this one. So, for myself I am confident because I walked my path of seeking and this is where I found the home of my heart. I can only say that I am right for me. Others must walk their own path of seeking. All I can do is help them get on that path to make their own conclusions.
1. Why do we think we're right and everyone else is wrong? How do we know?
2. Why does one small decision (believing in Jesus and God's gift) let us go to heaven, while people who lived "better" lives than most Christians go to hell unless they make the same small (in comparasion to a lifetime of works) decision?
3. How do we know the whole Bible i ...[text shortened]... think, though I will keep an eye out. If you're the praying type, I guess we could both use it.
Others may well walk the path and come to another place. That is of their own accord and I respect that. I can only know if I am at peace with my existence myself, not anyone else, and believe it is the same with every man.
2) This is the very essence of why I am a beliver of the Christian religion. If there is a God who truly loves us and wants us to be right with him, would he not make it easy for us to do so? Would he not make it so that we could definitively know that we are right with him? Christianity is the only theology I am aware of that makes this claim in this context (i.e. that we are not innately right with God, easy solution that anyone can do to be right with God, definitively know beyond doubt if you are right with God). The very nature of sin (as stated in scripture) prevents us from "doing" anything to remove it from us, or to redeem ourselves. If I may present my notion allegorical, who is the "clean" man here:
A man who wears new clean clothes and does not bathe.
A man wears old, tattered clothes with numerous stains upon them and he bathes.
Do you judge the cleanliness of the man by the clothes he wears, or the cleanliness of his body? People may do virtuous things, good things, that are good and right in the sight of God and in accordance with his will. This does not necessitate that THEY are right with God.
As way of another example, this reminds me of the man who takes care of many of his neighbors affairs while he neglects his own house. There is only one house he is responsible for, his own. It is good and right that he assists his neighbor, but that does not remove his resonsiblity for his own house.
3) Refer to my answer for 1. My answer for this is same/similar.
I will respond to your notion of "good people going to hell in another post".
Pax Vobiscum,
Omnislash
09 Oct 05
Originally posted by CoconutI think you are both correct and incorrect. I am unaware of any scripture which states "alternative" means of salvation. However, it is important to consider that salvation by grace was not the original means by which a person was right with God.
"I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man comes to the Father except by me."
I guess I'm wondering if any other religions boast the same statement, that there is only one way. No church I've ever been a part of says that accepting God's salvation is ONE of the ways to get to heaven. Nope, the only way. Meaning everyone else is wrong in their attempts to reach enlightenment.
Thanks KellyJ
The BC prinicple was to live "right", that is to say to live in accordance with the law of God which is written upon the heart of every man (i.e. innate understanding of the will of God). These took more definitive form with the ten commandments, Mosaic laws, etc. God judged people as such, and such is the manner in which people who have not been exposed to the teachings of Christ are judged today. What the Bible tells us is that salvation by grace is the "definitive" means of being right with God. The greates gift God has ever given to mankind.
You quoted "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man comes to the Father except by me." Christ also clearly stated that he did not come to overrule the teachings of the prophets, but to fullfill them. As a personal reflection, what I see in the timeline here from the origin of man to the death of Christ is God revising the system ocassionaly to make it "easier" for the individual to be right with him. I have personal notions as to why God did this as such, but they are mere speculations, for another day. What is poignant about this is simply that God always made good on his previous statements, never rescinding previous spiritual law. Rather, he revised the "system" (for lack of a better word) to create more and more loop holes and to make things more and more definitive.
Further more, in regards to your quote, it is important to remember who Jesus is so as to have the proper context. Jesus is God. Thusly, I think it fair to read the quote as follows, "No man comes to be right with God by means of anything outside of God." Make sense?
While I have mused on the means of salvation, I also want to stress our inability to judge another persons spiritual relationship. It is adamantly clear in scripture that we can not know another mans realationship with God. This highly influences my notion in my earlier post. If we can not know, then we should not assume. God has been very specific in that he reserves judgement of the spiritual for himself and himself alone. He has told us that we are not worthy to judge our fellow mans relationship with him. Such being the case, how can we assert the notion that a loving God judges people unfairly? Obviously, this is a paradox.
I can not in honesty say I understand the will of God all the time. So I won't. I don't need to. I understand that God is the creator and that he is good. I trust the motive of my creator. He has always been there, wether I had the perception to see him at the time is another story. Regardless, I have learned two symbiotic principles that have served me well.
1) Question everything.
2) Don't second guess the divine.
Simply because I do not understand all I wish to know about something does not mean I need to doubt it. I simply accept it for what it is: a little mystery in the big mystery of life, which may or may not become clear to me in time with honest evaluation and questioning. No more, no less.
Pax Vobiscum,
Omnislash
09 Oct 05
Originally posted by CoconutI agree Jesus is right and the only way, but you were talking about
"I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man comes to the Father except by me."
I guess I'm wondering if any other religions boast the same statement, that there is only one way. No church I've ever been a part of says that accepting God's salvation is ONE of the ways to get to heaven. Nope, the only way. Meaning everyone else is wrong in their attempts to reach enlightenment.
Thanks KellyJ
our churches or I thought you were. Our churches because they are
filled with people don't have a lock on truth, only God does. A small
difference but an important one.
Kelly
09 Oct 05
There will be no church in heaven, no religon either, so everyone has a chance thro there lives to recive the living gods promise, but what is, is jesus said i am the way, he now has the grace to forgive anyone and the father will forgive. But the christian church is for man to work for the glory of the living god and to give guidence and promise so nothing is lost. Jesus said prostitutes and tax collecters are making there way to heaven before them that say the word. p.s i think the tax collecters of today are not as bad.... well?
09 Oct 05
Originally posted by CoconutI don`t know.😛
1. Why do we think we're right and everyone else is wrong? How do we know?
2. Why does one small decision (believing in Jesus and God's gift) let us go to heaven, while people who lived "better" lives than most Christians go to hell unless they make the same small (in comparasion to a lifetime of works) decision?
3. How do we know the whole Bible i ...[text shortened]... think, though I will keep an eye out. If you're the praying type, I guess we could both use it.
10 Oct 05
Originally posted by CoconutIf you are a CEO of a company, can anyone just walk in the way they want and come into your office? No. They have to get through your secretary isnt it so? Those are the rules.
"I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man comes to the Father except by me."
I guess I'm wondering if any other religions boast the same statement, that there is only one way. No church I've ever been a part of says that accepting God's salvation is ONE of the ways to get to heaven. Nope, the only way. Meaning everyone else is wrong in their attempts to reach enlightenment.
Thanks KellyJ
If you do believe in God, those are His rules.
Different example, same meaning I would say.