12 Dec 11
To tell you the truth, bah humbug!
I mean, as a Christian, I've got nothing against the birth of Jesus, obviously, but what is this thing going on all over the Christianized world? Especially here in America?
Capitalist commercial market industrial complex Christmas.
Good for business I guess, but most people don't even know who Jesus is. Not really. Yet they act out the drama.
Any Scrooges out there?
12 Dec 11
Originally posted by josephwThe Holy Bible indicates Christ was born at the time of the Passover, which
To tell you the truth, bah humbug!
I mean, as a Christian, I've got nothing against the birth of Jesus, obviously, but what is this thing going on all over the Christianized world? Especially here in America?
Capitalist commercial market industrial complex Christmas.
Good for business I guess, but most people don't even know who Jesus is. Not really. Yet they act out the drama.
Any Scrooges out there?
is in the early spring, not at Christmas anyway. So Christmas has only the
name Christ in common so I don't care if His birth is mentioned then or not.
12 Dec 11
Originally posted by RJHindsChrist was more than likely conceived in late December.
The Holy Bible indicates Christ was born at the time of the Passover, which
is in the early spring, not at Christmas anyway. So Christmas has only the
name Christ in common so I don't care if His birth is mentioned then or not.
12 Dec 11
Originally posted by RJHindsActually, the Bible indicates Jesus was born in the fall, maybe September.
The Holy Bible indicates Christ was born at the time of the Passover, which
is in the early spring, not at Christmas anyway. So Christmas has only the
name Christ in common so I don't care if His birth is mentioned then or not.
Either way, Jesus wasn't born in December, yet that's what Christmas is supposed to be about. I'd be ok with that, but that's not what Christmas is about any more.
Christmas is no different than any other holiday for this materially invested culture we live in. It's a sham and a disgrace that an event like the birth of our Lord should be equated with, and ransacked by, and hijacked from the Church by a commercial industry.
12 Dec 11
1 edit
Originally posted by josephwChristmas for me is a case of the noisy hubbub of traffic in the sun beaten street in front of the church, the sermon delivered by a tannoy system and free roaming infants at the "children's mass" quite early in the morning at the same place where my kids were baptized and I was married. This is followed by socializing with the gathered-from-near-and-far family a bit in the late morning, maybe some tasty mutton and cassava on the BBQ. Christmas is an excuse to buy a few unanticipated things for the kids to use which I'll enjoy seeing them enjoy using; might even apply a tiny bit of fatherly spin to their take on things with my choices. Not crass, not commercial, not capitalistic, not claustrophobic-family-stuff, no TV involved, no over eating. With family gathered, work relatively slow, and a new year beckoning, it's always a time for taking stock and the spiritual reflection attendant thereto. Christmas is what you make of it.
Capitalist commercial market industrial complex Christmas.
12 Dec 11
Originally posted by josephwI would have to agree. Christmas has been turned into a birthday for us all rather than for Christ. I suppose the flip side is that if a holiday was not turned on its head for us to have an excuse to party, most people would simply ignore it altogether, like Good Friday.
To tell you the truth, bah humbug!
I mean, as a Christian, I've got nothing against the birth of Jesus, obviously, but what is this thing going on all over the Christianized world? Especially here in America?
Capitalist commercial market industrial complex Christmas.
Good for business I guess, but most people don't even know who Jesus is. Not really. Yet they act out the drama.
Any Scrooges out there?
12 Dec 11
Originally posted by whodeyAs I said, he was more than likely conceived in December putting his birth some time in late September. This is not proven of course but is the most likely scenario.
I would have to agree. Christmas has been turned into a birthday for us all rather than for Christ. I suppose the flip side is that if a holiday was not turned on its head for us to have an excuse to party, most people would simply ignore it altogether, like Good Friday.
December 25th was chosen by the Roman Catholic church to coincide (replace not abolish) the "pagan' celebration of the winter solstice (dec. 21). Good politics ,actually.
12 Dec 11
Originally posted by utherpendragonLuke says He was born at the time of the passover and that agrees with
As I said, he was more than likely conceived in December putting his birth some time in late September. This is not proven of course but is the most likely scenario.
December 25th was chosen by the Roman Catholic church to coincide (replace not abolish) the "pagan' celebration of the winter solstice (dec. 21). Good politics ,actually.
some other historical information so I accept that because Luke says he
checked out everything he wrote and Luke has never been proven wrong.
12 Dec 11
december 25 is a celebration of the sun festival and one of the most predominant festivals of antiquity shared by many diverse earth/sun religions.
the church made an early command decision to sell jesus christ as a "sun" deity and chose december 25 as christ's "birthday" in order to attract the sun worshipers to christianity.
12 Dec 11
Originally posted by josephwThe world is pretty much screwed in all aspects up these days - Christmas is the least of it's problems.
To tell you the truth, bah humbug!
I mean, as a Christian, I've got nothing against the birth of Jesus, obviously, but what is this thing going on all over the Christianized world? Especially here in America?
Capitalist commercial market industrial complex Christmas.
Good for business I guess, but most people don't even know who Jesus is. Not really. Yet they act out the drama.
Any Scrooges out there?
Personally I quite like Christmas; I get lots of time off work which is spent with beloved, last year it snowed which was romantic and as we buy very few gifts venturing to the shops is a wonderful study in people watching.
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12 Dec 11
Originally posted by FMFWell put!!
Christmas for me is a case of the noisy hubbub of traffic in the sun beaten street in front of the church, the sermon delivered by a tannoy system and free roaming infants at the "children's mass" quite early in the morning at the same place where my kids were baptized and I was married. This is followed by socializing with the gathered-from-near-and-far family ...[text shortened]... ing stock and the spiritual reflection attendant thereto. Christmas is what you make of it.
You've perfectly hit upon what is about this time of year that I love. It's time to unwind a bit, take stock (as you said), and spend quality time with family and friends. That's what I do every year and that's what I intend to do this year.
Actually this year is going to even better as I'm taking a week long trip with my wife to Germany starting this Wednesday and we'll be exploring the Christmas markets of Dusseldorf, Hamburg, and Frankfurt. There is lots of Gluhwein in my immediate future! Embrace it as we're only on this planet for a little while.
12 Dec 11
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12 Dec 11
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsLuke 2 only says this about the passover:
Luke says He was born at the time of the passover and that agrees with
some other historical information so I accept that because Luke says he
checked out everything he wrote and Luke has never been proven wrong.
Luke 2:41 Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover.
Luke 2:42 And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast.
This does not say Jesus was born at Passover. Even if they did go to Jerusalem at Passover every year, the last time they would have been there was six months before Jesus' birth, when Mary was not so "great with child".
Edit: What there IS ample evidence for in Luke is that Jesus was killed at Passover, since the Last Supper was probably the Passover feast. This correlates with Jesus as the ultimate Passover Lamb.
12 Dec 11
Originally posted by josephwCommercialized and materialistic is how the world is going and not just only at Christmas. Its all through the year.
To tell you the truth, bah humbug!
I mean, as a Christian, I've got nothing against the birth of Jesus, obviously, but what is this thing going on all over the Christianized world? Especially here in America?
Capitalist commercial market industrial complex Christmas.
Good for business I guess, but most people don't even know who Jesus is. Not really. Yet they act out the drama.
Any Scrooges out there?
Like others have said .. its how you choose to live your life. Its one of the sins which Christ and Paul mentioned - worldliness - which very few churches teach these days.
You can choose not to get involved with the excessive spending and waste.
13 Dec 11
Originally posted by SuzianneThe New American Standard Bible gives a more correct translation of
Luke 2 only says this about the passover:
Luke 2:41 Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover.
Luke 2:42 And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast.
This does not say Jesus was born at Passover. Even if they did go to Jerusalem at Passover every year, the last time the ...[text shortened]... r was probably the Passover feast. This correlates with Jesus as the ultimate Passover Lamb.
Luke 2:41-42.
Now His parents went to Jerusalem every year at the Feast of the Passover.
And when He became twelve, they went up there according to the custom of
the Feast;
When I became 12 years old it was on my birthday. I am sure it woud be
the same for Jesus. I agree he represented the perfect Passover Lamb.
That is even more reason He should be born on the Passover for the lamb
to be sacrifice must be 1 year old. So the perfect Passover lamb would
have been born on the previous Passover. I am not going to go into all
the other things for this should be enough for any reasonable person.