1. Joined
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    12 Dec '11 02:23
    To tell you the truth, bah humbug!

    I mean, as a Christian, I've got nothing against the birth of Jesus, obviously, but what is this thing going on all over the Christianized world? Especially here in America?

    Capitalist commercial market industrial complex Christmas.

    Good for business I guess, but most people don't even know who Jesus is. Not really. Yet they act out the drama.

    Any Scrooges out there?
  2. Standard memberRJHinds
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    12 Dec '11 02:30
    Originally posted by josephw
    To tell you the truth, bah humbug!

    I mean, as a Christian, I've got nothing against the birth of Jesus, obviously, but what is this thing going on all over the Christianized world? Especially here in America?

    Capitalist commercial market industrial complex Christmas.

    Good for business I guess, but most people don't even know who Jesus is. Not really. Yet they act out the drama.

    Any Scrooges out there?
    The Holy Bible indicates Christ was born at the time of the Passover, which
    is in the early spring, not at Christmas anyway. So Christmas has only the
    name Christ in common so I don't care if His birth is mentioned then or not.
  3. Hy-Brasil
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    12 Dec '11 02:47
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    The Holy Bible indicates Christ was born at the time of the Passover, which
    is in the early spring, not at Christmas anyway. So Christmas has only the
    name Christ in common so I don't care if His birth is mentioned then or not.
    Christ was more than likely conceived in late December.
  4. Joined
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    12 Dec '11 02:47
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    The Holy Bible indicates Christ was born at the time of the Passover, which
    is in the early spring, not at Christmas anyway. So Christmas has only the
    name Christ in common so I don't care if His birth is mentioned then or not.
    Actually, the Bible indicates Jesus was born in the fall, maybe September.

    Either way, Jesus wasn't born in December, yet that's what Christmas is supposed to be about. I'd be ok with that, but that's not what Christmas is about any more.

    Christmas is no different than any other holiday for this materially invested culture we live in. It's a sham and a disgrace that an event like the birth of our Lord should be equated with, and ransacked by, and hijacked from the Church by a commercial industry.
  5. SubscriberFMF
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    12 Dec '11 02:561 edit
    Originally posted by josephw
    Capitalist commercial market industrial complex Christmas.
    Christmas for me is a case of the noisy hubbub of traffic in the sun beaten street in front of the church, the sermon delivered by a tannoy system and free roaming infants at the "children's mass" quite early in the morning at the same place where my kids were baptized and I was married. This is followed by socializing with the gathered-from-near-and-far family a bit in the late morning, maybe some tasty mutton and cassava on the BBQ. Christmas is an excuse to buy a few unanticipated things for the kids to use which I'll enjoy seeing them enjoy using; might even apply a tiny bit of fatherly spin to their take on things with my choices. Not crass, not commercial, not capitalistic, not claustrophobic-family-stuff, no TV involved, no over eating. With family gathered, work relatively slow, and a new year beckoning, it's always a time for taking stock and the spiritual reflection attendant thereto. Christmas is what you make of it.
  6. Joined
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    12 Dec '11 03:24
    Originally posted by josephw
    To tell you the truth, bah humbug!

    I mean, as a Christian, I've got nothing against the birth of Jesus, obviously, but what is this thing going on all over the Christianized world? Especially here in America?

    Capitalist commercial market industrial complex Christmas.

    Good for business I guess, but most people don't even know who Jesus is. Not really. Yet they act out the drama.

    Any Scrooges out there?
    I would have to agree. Christmas has been turned into a birthday for us all rather than for Christ. I suppose the flip side is that if a holiday was not turned on its head for us to have an excuse to party, most people would simply ignore it altogether, like Good Friday.
  7. Hy-Brasil
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    12 Dec '11 03:44
    Originally posted by whodey
    I would have to agree. Christmas has been turned into a birthday for us all rather than for Christ. I suppose the flip side is that if a holiday was not turned on its head for us to have an excuse to party, most people would simply ignore it altogether, like Good Friday.
    As I said, he was more than likely conceived in December putting his birth some time in late September. This is not proven of course but is the most likely scenario.

    December 25th was chosen by the Roman Catholic church to coincide (replace not abolish) the "pagan' celebration of the winter solstice (dec. 21). Good politics ,actually.
  8. Standard memberRJHinds
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    12 Dec '11 04:02
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    As I said, he was more than likely conceived in December putting his birth some time in late September. This is not proven of course but is the most likely scenario.

    December 25th was chosen by the Roman Catholic church to coincide (replace not abolish) the "pagan' celebration of the winter solstice (dec. 21). Good politics ,actually.
    Luke says He was born at the time of the passover and that agrees with
    some other historical information so I accept that because Luke says he
    checked out everything he wrote and Luke has never been proven wrong.
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    12 Dec '11 04:45
    december 25 is a celebration of the sun festival and one of the most predominant festivals of antiquity shared by many diverse earth/sun religions.

    the church made an early command decision to sell jesus christ as a "sun" deity and chose december 25 as christ's "birthday" in order to attract the sun worshipers to christianity.
  10. Joined
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    12 Dec '11 07:44
    Originally posted by josephw
    To tell you the truth, bah humbug!

    I mean, as a Christian, I've got nothing against the birth of Jesus, obviously, but what is this thing going on all over the Christianized world? Especially here in America?

    Capitalist commercial market industrial complex Christmas.

    Good for business I guess, but most people don't even know who Jesus is. Not really. Yet they act out the drama.

    Any Scrooges out there?
    The world is pretty much screwed in all aspects up these days - Christmas is the least of it's problems.

    Personally I quite like Christmas; I get lots of time off work which is spent with beloved, last year it snowed which was romantic and as we buy very few gifts venturing to the shops is a wonderful study in people watching.
  11. Joined
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    12 Dec '11 15:14
    Originally posted by FMF
    Christmas for me is a case of the noisy hubbub of traffic in the sun beaten street in front of the church, the sermon delivered by a tannoy system and free roaming infants at the "children's mass" quite early in the morning at the same place where my kids were baptized and I was married. This is followed by socializing with the gathered-from-near-and-far family ...[text shortened]... ing stock and the spiritual reflection attendant thereto. Christmas is what you make of it.
    Well put!!

    You've perfectly hit upon what is about this time of year that I love. It's time to unwind a bit, take stock (as you said), and spend quality time with family and friends. That's what I do every year and that's what I intend to do this year.

    Actually this year is going to even better as I'm taking a week long trip with my wife to Germany starting this Wednesday and we'll be exploring the Christmas markets of Dusseldorf, Hamburg, and Frankfurt. There is lots of Gluhwein in my immediate future! Embrace it as we're only on this planet for a little while.
  12. Standard memberChessPraxis
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    12 Dec '11 17:57
    Sorry for the delay...our Legal Department just approved the following Holiday Greeting:

    Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender neutral, celebration of the winter solstice holiday(tm), practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secularpersuasions and/or traditions of others, or their choice not topractice religious or secular traditions at all . . . and a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling, and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2007, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society havehelped make America great, (not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country or is the only "AMERICA" in the western hemisphere), and without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith, choice of computer platform, or sexual orientation of the wishee.

    By accepting this greeting, you are accepting these terms: This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely transferable with no alteration to the original greeting. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for her/himself or others, and is void where prohibited by law, and is revocable at the sole discretion oft he wisher. This wish is warranted to perform as expected within the usual pplication of good tidings for a period of one year, or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first, and warranty is limited to replacement of this wish or issuance of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher.


    http://www.dezert-rose.com/humor/christmas/bestwishes.html
  13. SubscriberSuzianne
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    12 Dec '11 18:141 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Luke says He was born at the time of the passover and that agrees with
    some other historical information so I accept that because Luke says he
    checked out everything he wrote and Luke has never been proven wrong.
    Luke 2 only says this about the passover:

    Luke 2:41 Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover.
    Luke 2:42 And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast.

    This does not say Jesus was born at Passover. Even if they did go to Jerusalem at Passover every year, the last time they would have been there was six months before Jesus' birth, when Mary was not so "great with child".

    Edit: What there IS ample evidence for in Luke is that Jesus was killed at Passover, since the Last Supper was probably the Passover feast. This correlates with Jesus as the ultimate Passover Lamb.
  14. Standard memberRajk999
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    12 Dec '11 18:53
    Originally posted by josephw
    To tell you the truth, bah humbug!

    I mean, as a Christian, I've got nothing against the birth of Jesus, obviously, but what is this thing going on all over the Christianized world? Especially here in America?

    Capitalist commercial market industrial complex Christmas.

    Good for business I guess, but most people don't even know who Jesus is. Not really. Yet they act out the drama.

    Any Scrooges out there?
    Commercialized and materialistic is how the world is going and not just only at Christmas. Its all through the year.

    Like others have said .. its how you choose to live your life. Its one of the sins which Christ and Paul mentioned - worldliness - which very few churches teach these days.

    You can choose not to get involved with the excessive spending and waste.
  15. Standard memberRJHinds
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    13 Dec '11 07:28
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Luke 2 only says this about the passover:

    Luke 2:41 Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover.
    Luke 2:42 And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast.

    This does not say Jesus was born at Passover. Even if they did go to Jerusalem at Passover every year, the last time the ...[text shortened]... r was probably the Passover feast. This correlates with Jesus as the ultimate Passover Lamb.
    The New American Standard Bible gives a more correct translation of
    Luke 2:41-42.

    Now His parents went to Jerusalem every year at the Feast of the Passover.
    And when He became twelve, they went up there according to the custom of
    the Feast;

    When I became 12 years old it was on my birthday. I am sure it woud be
    the same for Jesus. I agree he represented the perfect Passover Lamb.
    That is even more reason He should be born on the Passover for the lamb
    to be sacrifice must be 1 year old. So the perfect Passover lamb would
    have been born on the previous Passover. I am not going to go into all
    the other things for this should be enough for any reasonable person.
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