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Over the years Rajk999 has given the impression that the word "church" represents something negative, ugly, against God, hateful to Christ.
Regardless of problems in history with the church and I churches I will prove that "church" is a precious, positive, and wonderful word signifying the most positive and wonderful things about Jesus and Christians.
This is to counteract the disgust for the very word "church" Rajk999 has tried to stress over the years on this Forum.
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Get ready you down thumbers.
Firstly, Christ said He would build His church - His church - and the gates of Hades and all the death that God's enemy could throw at her would not prevail against it.
Christ then had to love that which He came to establish and eventually overcome in victory the gates of hell.
"And I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it." (Matt. 16:18)
No Peter is not the rock. The rock upon which the church is founded is the revelation that Peter had - that Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God.
No other foundation for the church can be lain but what was lain by the apostles including Paul - Jesus Christ.
"For another foundation no one is able to lay besides that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ." (1 Cor. 3:11)
The new testament church is "being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone." (Eph. 2:20)
What a fantastically wonderful concept the church is.
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While I would admit that there is no "gospel of the church" in the NT. There is "the gospel of the kingdom" .
Yet the church us closely related to the kingdom of God. And as the kingdom is unshakable so the church cannot be prevailed against by any and all that the enemies of God throw against her.
He said the gates of Hades would not prevail against the church that He would build. He did not say the gates of Hades would not TRY to do so.
Here we see a relationship between the victorious church He builds and the propagating of the kingdom of the heavens. That is the kingdom of God which has its source and origin in heaven. "Your will be done, so as in heaven so on earth."
"And I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. And I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of the heavens, and whatever you bind on the earth shall have been bound in the heavens, and whatever you loose on the earth shall havre been loosed in the heavens." (Matt. 16:16-19)
Peter the apostle as given two "keys" to let people into the kingdom of the heavens. That is the kingdom the ORIGIN and SOURCE of are in heaven.
He let the Jews into the kingdom first (Acts 2). Then in the house of Cornelius the Italian military man he let the Gentiles into the Christian church in
Acts 10.
Come on you down thumbers. Let's see if you can get up to six thumbs down like over on the Kingdom of God-men thread.
@sonship said“ I will prove that "church" is a precious, positive, and wonderful word signifying the most positive and wonderful things about Jesus and Christians.”
Over the years Rajk999 has given the impression that the word "church" represents something negative, ugly, against God, hateful to Christ.
Regardless of problems in history with the church and I churches I will prove that "church" is a precious, positive, and wonderful word signifying the most positive and wonderful things about Jesus a ...[text shortened]... act the disgust for the very word "church" Rajk999 has tried to stress over the years on this Forum.
Your arrogance knows no bounds does it.
Some children have been raped in Church but sonship the mighty right hand of god, is going to prove that church is a positive thing in spite of its history of oppression and exploitation of the poor and its unwavering support for some of the most authoritarian regimes ever generated by man.
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Some children have been raped in Church but sonship the mighty right hand of god, is going to prove that church is a positive thing in spite of its history of oppression and exploitation of the poor and its unwavering support for some of the most authoritarian regimes ever generated by man.
It is true that in Christianity many sins have been committed under the banner of Christ and His church. Now if you would be objective historically about the effect of Christiandom on the world you would have to also admit that much humanitarian outreach also has under the same banner.
Let's be historically realistic that this is a mixed bag. Any purely one sided / lopsided analysis of Christianity's history is not reliable because there is positives and negatives historically.
The second thing I would say is that Jesus said that the gates of Hades (death and all its stinking influence physically and spiritually) would not prevail against the church that HE would build. A tragedy in history is that man in his natural and religious nature has attempted to do that building causing the church to be like a worldly organizational hierarchy steeped in the fallen sinful nature.
The gates of Hades surely has done much damage to that worldly Christiandom trying to exterminate the growth of God within man for the building up of the organic entity.
1.) Much done under the banner of Christ's church has corrupted the world.
2.) Realistically it is a mixed bag. Much humanitarian and anti-criminal social evils ALSO haver been done under the same banner.
3.) Not everything men erect with a façade of dedication to Christ is the church that He said HE would build.
4.) The church that He will build and is building is the result of Christ growing in human beings, spreading in them, saturating them, permeating them, filling them, such that He is each and everything in the church life. This is lovely, true to His prophecy and a remnant of overcoming believers are emerging to form a critical mass amid the degradation to bring Him back to the earth.
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All Christian denominations and their teachings included?
A denomination is a self professed division in the church. There are many of us caught in denominations. Many of them contain good and true teaching, genuine Christ loving saints, dedicated and consecrated workers and servants of Christ.
A weakness amid these positive aspects of believers in denominations is the self defeating problem of professing to be divided, denominated.
It is like Israel taken captive to Babylon. Who was more spiritual than Daniel and his three companions in Babylon? He was clear about many things, consecrated to prayer to the uttermost. Probably there were others in Babylon who in spite of their being carried away there, loved Yahweh, served God to the best of their situation.
But they needed recovery. And today Christians need recovery back to the ground of local unity such that the damage of denominational division may have a counter testimony in each city where Christians live.
Even though in the New Testament the church which is in Corinth had many problems, the word church which she was was still a precious thing on the heart of Christ. A local church is not a utopia where believers no longer have issues.
But it is a lovely word describing what Christ died for. Precious because it is what God obtained with His own blood when He was Christ crucified to purchase the church.
"Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among whom the Holy Spirit has placed you as overseers to shepherd the church of God, which He obtained through His own blood." (Acts 20:28)
You can see that the church is precious to God because God purchased the church with His own blood. So she is dear forever to the heart of God.
@kevcvs57 saidJesus condemned the church in his time, calling the church leaders fools, hypocrites, blind guides, liars, crooked and evil. Not much has changed. That description is still applicable today.
“ I will prove that "church" is a precious, positive, and wonderful word signifying the most positive and wonderful things about Jesus and Christians.”
Your arrogance knows no bounds does it.
Some children have been raped in Church but sonship the mighty right hand of god, is going to prove that church is a positive thing in spite of its history of oppression ...[text shortened]... he poor and its unwavering support for some of the most authoritarian regimes ever generated by man.
Jesus's church is built on good works and righteousness and all people who keep the commandments, the chief of which is brotherly love and charity, are part of this church. The parable of the Good Samaritan drives this point home, but Christians unfortunately continue to ignore Christ. The Good Samaritan represents those who are not bound to any church. The priest and Levite represents the church. Churches are condemned because they preach to people that good works and charity are not required because they are saved. Churches are in total opposition to Jesus Christ and only profess belief with their mouth but their teachings are far from Him.
Sonship and his type are in the church of Satan.
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Some children have been raped in Church but sonship the mighty right hand of god, is going to prove that church is a positive thing in spite of its history of oppression and exploitation of the poor and its unwavering support for some of the most authoritarian regimes ever generated by man.
It is true that because of the terrible errors brought in by some "the way of the TRUTH will be reviled." You are reviling the Christian church with some ground to do so because of hypocrisies done under that name of Christian Church. You're perhaps happy to do so as an athiest.
Of course the millions slaughtered by your atheist regimes don't stop you from pursuing that worldview.
In a free society such as the US anyone can call what he likes a Church. There is a Church of Satan. There is a Church of Scientology. There is a Church of Latter Day Saints. There is a Unification Church. There is a Public Church. There is a Roman Catholic [world wide] Church, a Unitarian Church, a Bahai Church, a Bible Church, etc.
The point is that in many free or relatively liberal societies people have the right to call an organization by that name "Church". This thread says the word is not spoiled by this sad fact.
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cont.
Even in some authoritarian societies the government may establish an official Church sanctioned by the prevailing governmental authority of that nation.
The Apostle Peter did warn that because of hypocrisy "the way of the truth would be blasphemed".
But there arose also false prophets among the people, as also among you there will be false teachers, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.
And many will follow their licentiousness, because of whom the way of the truth will be reviled." ) (2 Pet. 2:1,2)
So I say the concept of Christ's church is still precious until the end of the age. Some will overcome the surrounding degradation and be that church which He said He would build. Though Hades would do its best to destroy it from without and within Jesus would build that church "and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it."
I hear you saying "the gates of Hades HAS destroyed any church of Jesus". I say no it hasn't. But it surely has tried and will continue to do so yet in vain.
Some will arrive at that entity Christ said He would build. He cannot come back unless some arrive - a critical mass world wide I think.
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Jesus condemned the church in his time, calling the church leaders fools, hypocrites, blind guides, liars, crooked and evil. Not much has changed. That description is still applicable today.
Actually that is not true because the new testament church came into existence after the death and resurrection of Christ.
Now for sure in His letters to the seven churches in the book of Revelation He often had some harsh things to say - CORRECTING them, REBUKING them, ADJUSTING them, WARNING them. This is true.
But the word church is still precious to Him as He said to the church in Laodicea that He rebukes as many as He loves. It is because of His LOVE for the churching saints there that He rebuked them.
He scolded the churches out of His LOVE for the church which He will build.
"As many as I love I reprove and discipline; be zealous therefore and repent." (Rev. 3:19)
You however rebuke the Christians out of your contempt for the Lord Jesus and your hatred for the church. Both the Lord and His church rubs your self righteousness the wrong way that you are superior to all who come to the Lord Jesus for salvation.
Your rebukes over the years here are not out of any love but out of bitter hatred for the Gospel of the Grace of God.
@sonship saidIs that a yes or a no sonship?
@divegeester
All Christian denominations and their teachings included?
A denomination is a self professed division in the church. There are many of us caught in denominations. Many of them contain good and true teaching, genuine Christ loving saints, dedicated and consecrated workers and servants of Christ.
A weakness amid these positive asp ...[text shortened]... od because God purchased the church with His own blood. So she is dear forever to the heart of God.
Are all Christian denominations included in your description or not?
@sonship saidBaloney... Church means nothing... the righteous people, Christ brothers and sisters who keep the commandments are precious.
@Rajk999
Jesus condemned the church in his time, calling the church leaders fools, hypocrites, blind guides, liars, crooked and evil. Not much has changed. That description is still applicable today.
Actually that is not true because the new testament church came into existence after the death and resurrection of Christ.
Now for sure in His lette ...[text shortened]... the years here are not out of any love but out of bitter hatred for the Gospel of the Grace of God.
You and your evil doctrine are chaf fit to be burned.
@divegeester saidIncluded is the local churches who worship Witness Lee.
Is that a yes or a no sonship?
Are all Christian denominations included in your description or not?
All the rest are organizations of Satan.
@sonship saidI hate the word church. To me the word Church represents everything that I despise about organised religion, from it's hypocrisy to it's dabbling in politics; from it's uncleanliness to the deceptions that it tries to cover over including Pedophilia.
Over the years Rajk999 has given the impression that the word "church" represents something negative, ugly, against God, hateful to Christ.
Regardless of problems in history with the church and I churches I will prove that "church" is a precious, positive, and wonderful word signifying the most positive and wonderful things about Jesus a ...[text shortened]... act the disgust for the very word "church" Rajk999 has tried to stress over the years on this Forum.
On the other hand the word Congregation is beautiful. It is the people that fail but keep trying in their imperfection to follow the steps of Christ.. Those that want to do what is right but keep making mistakes than brush themselves down and try all over again.. The brothers and sisters of a family that you can depend on like no others. The spiritual siblings that you have that you would die with if it came to it.
To me these people are betrayed by the word "Church".