Originally posted by 667joeYes.... they are all correct, because they are all substitute religions fabricated by fallible man, to satisfy the materialistic propensities of its followers.
Christians think Jews and Muslims are wrong. Muslims think Christians and Jews are wrong. Jews think Christians and Muslims are wrong. They are all correct!
But there is only one true original religion for mankind, and its the religion that is eternal and ever existing....Vedanta Sutra.
Vedanta Sutra is not a substitute religion, but is the only religion, because it has no error and is coming from the Personality of God head.
All the other religions are for the low class meat eaters, and do not have higher spiritual knowledge.
Originally posted by vishvahetuFor God's sake give it a break for for 5 minutes will you!
Yes.... they are all correct, because they are all substitute religions fabricated by fallible man, to satisfy the materialistic propensities of its followers.
But there is only one true original religion for mankind, and its the religion that is eternal and ever existing....Vedanta Sutra.
Vedanta Sutra is not a substitute religion, but is the only ...[text shortened]... e other religions are for the low class meat eaters, and do not have higher spiritual knowledge.
Originally posted by 667joeincorrect. fundamentalist jews think fundamentalist muslims are wrong, fundamentalist christians think fundamentalist muslims are wrong etc...
Christians think Jews and Muslims are wrong. Muslims think Christians and Jews are wrong. Jews think Christians and Muslims are wrong. They are all correct!
broad sweeping generalities are a poor way to make a point.
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Originally posted by 667joeNot exactly. Inter-faith dialogue between various religious groups has yielded many points of agreement. The Catholic Church, for example, in her conciliar document, Nostra Aetate, acknowledged that Jews and Muslims share the revelation of God. On Muslims, for example, it teaches,
Christians think Jews and Muslims are wrong. Muslims think Christians and Jews are wrong. Jews think Christians and Muslims are wrong. They are all correct!
3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.
It also teaches that many other religious groups may possess true teachings,
Religions, however, that are bound up with an advanced culture have struggled to answer the same questions by means of more refined concepts and a more developed language. Thus in Hinduism, men contemplate the divine mystery and express it through an inexhaustible abundance of myths and through searching philosophical inquiry. They seek freedom from the anguish of our human condition either through ascetical practices or profound meditation or a flight to God with love and trust. Again, Buddhism, in its various forms, realizes the radical insufficiency of this changeable world; it teaches a way by which men, in a devout and confident spirit, may be able either to acquire the state of perfect liberation, or attain, by their own efforts or through higher help, supreme illumination. Likewise, other religions found everywhere try to counter the restlessness of the human heart, each in its own manner, by proposing "ways," comprising teachings, rules of life, and sacred rites. The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ "the way, the truth, and the life" (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself.(4)
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html
You are guilty of serious generalisation here.
Originally posted by Conrau KDoes salvation come through faith in the death and resurrection of Christ, or does it not? If so, then Jews and Muslims, despite any number of points of agreement, are ultimately wrong.
Not exactly. Inter-faith dialogue between various religious groups has yielded many points of agreement. The Catholic Church, for example, in her conciliar document, Nostra Aetate, acknowledged that Jews and Muslims share the revelation of God. On Muslims, for example, it teaches,
[quote]3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They ado ...[text shortened]... vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html
You are guilty of serious generalisation here.
In spite of the scandelous display of division among Christians, the New Testament presents a picture of God's purpose of oneness as ultimately victorious.
A few facts to consider:
1.) The arrival at oneness is taught by Jesus as a process, a gradual perfecting. In His mighty prayer for the Christian church, He asked the Father:
" ... but concerning those also who believe into Me through their [the apostles] word, That they all may be one; even as You, Father are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us that the world may believe that You have sent Me.
And the glory which You have given Me I have gien to them, that they may be one, even as We are one;
I in them, and You in Me, that they may be PERFECTED into one ..." (See John 17:20-23)
This oneness is not of all merely professing to believe in Christ but all who actually DO believe into Christ. False Christians are not included in this PROCESS of being PERFECTED into one. So this is emphatically not Christ's prayer for Christiandom as a general and sloppy conglomeration of any and all wanting to "jump on the bandwagon" and merely profess the name Jesus Christ.
2.) So now that we see God's WILL is the oneness of all who are truly believers INTO an organic oneness with Jesus Christ, it is still a oneness to be worked out by way of PROCESS - "PERFECTED ... INTO ONE" ;
Christians can confindently proclaim that they are in the process of being perfected into oneness. It is being outworked. God is still building with them and working in them UNTO this perfected oneness.
There is no call for dispair that such oneness can never be.
3.) SOME may be seen by God as already well arriving in this oneness. They are neither proud or exclusive. They cannot adopt an attitude of "US FOUR AND NO MORE" like the Exclusive Brethren. But nevertheless, Scripture says that SOME are "inheriting the promises" including that of this unique oneness:
"That you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who throuigh faith and long-suffering are inheriting the promises" (Hebrews 5:12)
Even in Paul's day, he could write that there those who were "inheriting the promises" who served as models to be imitated. They were experiencing the promises of the New Testament. The others were to look to them and seek to imulate them.
Today, some Christian brothers and sisters are coming into the inheritance of oneness, one accord, and unity sought by God. God knows. If you are a Christian and boast about it exclusively, you probably don't have it. But some, in humility, even today amid such obvious division are "inheriting the promises".
4.) In conjuntion with this fact we should understand - ALL Christians will eventualy arrive at this unity. But ALL will not at the SAME TIME.
This is proved by Paul's word - " Until we all arrive at the oneness of the faith and of the full knowledge of the Son of God, at a full grown man, at the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ." (Eph. 4:13)
Notice - "UNTIL ...". This indicate TIME. This indicates an operation requiring TIME - UNTIL a certain outcome.
Some are ARRIVING. ALL will eventually ARRIVE. The process continues on the earth until WE ALL arrive. That is not ALL professing Christiandom. That is all whom God recognizes as truly being believers.
Here Christians may be fooled. But God is never fooled. He knows who is genuine His regenerated child and who is not. And though ALL must arrive at this oneness, ALL will not at the same time. But the process continues UNTIL ... ALL[/b] arrive.
5.) The arrival is in the knowledge of a Person - a Living Person Jesus. It is not the arrival necessarily in many minor doctrinal points. It is a arrival at the "full knowledge of the Son of God"
It is not a arrival, necessarily, in the universal agreement on the method of water baptism, or head covering, or a universal agreement on the number of spiritual gifts. It is not a universal agreement necessarily on the timing of the rapture or even if there is a rapture, whether pre-tribulation or post tribulation.
It is not an arrival, necessarily, on minor doctrinal issues. It is an arrival at the knowledge of the Son of God as a living and available Person whom we may live by and enjoy day by day and moment by moment.'
This is proved by the continuation of Paul's thought:
6.) That we may be no longer little children tossed by waves and carried about by every wind of teaching in the sleight of men, in craftiness with a view to a system of error,
But holding to truth in love, we may grow up into Him in all things, who is the Head, Christ." (Eph. 4:14,15)[/b]
Rather then remain spiritual "children" the Christians are to spiritually "grow up".
Accumulating more and more knowledge of doctrine may NOT be growing up. This is not growing merely in doctrinal information. This is growing up into a Person - Christ. That means Christ growing in the Christians - unto a spiritual maturity in their living.
Children who are imature are easily tossed by waves. These different waves may be gentle or rough. They may be pleasant or violent. Either way these are waves which carry Christians away from HOLDING to the living Person Jesus Christ as a HEAD. - " ... children tossed by waves and carried about by every wind of teaching ..."
Teaching may be a wave or wind carrying a believer away from the living Jesus. not only bad incorrect teaching may distract the Christian. Even good doctrinal teaching may also be merely objective knowledge distracting the believer from HOLDING to the living presence of Christ.
We speak sometimes of being "dead right". That means one arguing doctrine may be "right" in letter but spiritually "dead". That is not imparting Christ the Person to people. We must be ministers of the living Spirit of Christ the available Person. We must help the Christians to hold fast to the living Person while also avoiding doctrinal error.
7.) The nature of the divine life in the Body of believers will cause the Body to build up itself into this oneness:
"Until we all arrive at the oneness of the faith and of the full knowledge of the Son of God, at a fullgrown man, at the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ ... holding to truth in love, we may grow up into Him in all things, who is the Head, Christ,
Out from whom all the Body, being joined together and being knit together through every jount of the rich supply and through the operation in the measure of each one part, CAUSES the growth of the Body unto the building up of itself in love." (See Ephesians 4:13-16)
Love, growth, holding to the living Person of Christ and all the members of the Christian church releasing thier portion of the riches of Christ will cause the Body to grow and arrive at this maturity and oneness.
It cannot be stopped. It can and has been delayed. It cannot be defeated. And it cannot fail. And some will arrive in this age. All will arrive inevitably. The gates of hell cannot prevail against the Christian church.'
The atheists will be worn out and worn down. The atheists and opposers of the Gospel will wear out. God's eternal plan will prevail and outlast them and be victorious over all the opposing forces of unbelief.
These are trustworthy words.
Originally posted by 667joe=========================
Not according to Jew and Muslims!
Not according to Jew and Muslims!
=========================
If you are replying to me, jaywill.
I was not speaking for Judiasm or Islam.
The Body of Christ is not Gentile or non-Jewish. She is spoken of as being "one new man".
The early Christians were Jews of course. Paul, James, John, Peter, etc. all Jews.
But the church of Christ is called the "one new man" where there CANNOT be Jew or Greek, slave or free, Scythian, Barbarian, East, West, American, Chinese, etc.
"One new man" speaks of a new divine life shared by all her constituents. They are sons of God sharing in the divine life of the Father. This transcends national and ethnic boundaries.
Just the same, God does have certain pomises which He will not leave unfulfilled to the nation of Israel.
Lastly, Jews and Moslems both believe that there is only one God. This is truth. Insomuch that the Christians, Jews and Moslems share a monotheistic belief, they are at least unified in that particular matter.
There is only one God. That is truth. That is agreed upon. Then again so do the demons believe that there there is one God, so big deal:
"You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe and shudder." (James 2:19)
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Originally posted by rwingettDoes salvation come through faith in the death and resurrection of Christ, or does it not?
Does salvation come through faith in the death and resurrection of Christ, or does it not? If so, then Jews and Muslims, despite any number of points of agreement, are ultimately wrong.
Of course not. The Catholic Church teaches that there are two minimal requirements, the purgation of original sin, whether by sacramental baptism, or baptism of blood or of spirit, and death without mortal sin. Explicit faith in Christ is not necessary. In another conciliar document, Lumen Gentium, the Catholic Church teaches that salvation is possible to all faiths:
the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohammedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.(128) Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.(19*) Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html
The point I am making here is that while there are significant disagreements between religious groups, there are also points of agreement. I wonder if anyone here has actually attended an inter-faith conference? In Melbourne last year we had the World Religions Conference. It involved hundreds of representatives from all religions over the world. There was no squabbling about doctrine or declaration of fatwas.