1. Joined
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    09 Jul '05 07:54
    I have just completed a brief unit on genetis and remain sceptical about evolution. I find it difficult to comprehend that a series of mistakes in our genes past on to offsrping can cause for instance the complex structure of the eye to develop.
    I know the eye is extremely necssary to most mammals survival but can't see how it could be caused by what really is a series of mistakes in gene replication.
    This is not necassarily an argument against evolution (althouhg it could be) but more of difficulty for me to understand evolution.
  2. Standard memberKellyJay
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    09 Jul '05 08:22
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    I have just completed a brief unit on genetis and remain sceptical about evolution. I find it difficult to comprehend that a series of mistakes in our genes past on to offsrping can cause for instance the complex structure of the eye to develop.
    I know the eye is extremely necssary to most mammals survival but can't see how it could be caused by what re ...[text shortened]... against evolution (althouhg it could be) but more of difficulty for me to understand evolution.
    It has to be mistakes/mutations in DNA if evolution is true, it cannot
    be because anything needed eye sight, that would require something
    to guide the evolutionary process along.
    Kelly
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    09 Jul '05 08:51
    Another question. Is evolution a scientific fact?
  4. Standard memberKellyJay
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    09 Jul '05 08:58
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    Another question. Is evolution a scientific fact?
    Between the ears of some it is.
    Kelly
  5. Joined
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    09 Jul '05 09:09
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    Another question. Is evolution a scientific fact?
    What do you mean by scientific fact? Evolution is a possible scientific model and for the lack of a better one it is widely accepted. It is simple, presents a
    scientific (logically consistent with the data) explainations, and most importantly, it is supported by a great deal of evidence. There are gaps in it, of course, but when a scientific theories collide with gaps two things may happen:
    1) The theory is revised and thrown out. There comes a new, more consistent with the data model.
    2) The theory is really convenient. Gaps are explained through some other mechanisms /locally applied patches to amend the situation/.
  6. Joined
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    09 Jul '05 09:43
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    I have just completed a brief unit on genetis and remain sceptical about evolution. I find it difficult to comprehend that a series of mistakes in our genes past on to offsrping can cause for instance the complex structure of the eye to develop.
    I know the eye is extremely necssary to most mammals survival but can't see how it could be caused by what re ...[text shortened]... against evolution (althouhg it could be) but more of difficulty for me to understand evolution.
    Hi, I have studied evolution through and through, and I think it is very illogical.

    The idea is, something very complex, 'such as the eye' can be created by accidents, with a probabiltiy of 1 in (an uncountable amount.)

    It seems crackers.

    Ask yourself can you make a digital camera. Many people would find it very very difficult.
    Now, can you create an eye. The answer is NO.

    So do you think that that many microbes by some wierd accident could create such a complex life form, when many humans (who can think), cannot even create a much more simpler device.

    Bye from Tim or Phledos, or whatever you want to call me. ๐Ÿ™‚
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    09 Jul '05 09:45
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    It has to be mistakes/mutations in DNA if evolution is true, it cannot
    be because anything needed eye sight, that would require something
    to guide the evolutionary process along.
    Kelly
    Hi, I dont think that mistakes or mutations help.

    A mutatiuon is an unatural change to a life form.

    This means evolving and then having a new ability.

    But mutations alter the DNA for the worse.

    eg. If you poke a stick at a radio, it will hardly make it work better.

    Bye
  8. Joined
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    09 Jul '05 09:49
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    Another question. Is evolution a scientific fact?
    Evolution is a way out, for those who do not believe in God.

    If you dont believe in evolution, then you likely believe in creation, which means you have to do something about it, as youre accountable to God.

    This is why many people believe evolution. It isnt nescessarily a fact.

    C ya ๐Ÿ™‚
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    09 Jul '05 09:49
    Originally posted by Phledos

    But mutations alter the DNA for the worse.
    How so?
  10. Joined
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    09 Jul '05 10:05
    Originally posted by ilywrin
    How so?
    this is the idea:

    The DNA in our blood, becomes succeptible to viruses, (cancers). This causes the cells to change form.

    These changed cells should be a change for the better, if mutation is correct.
    Unfortunatly though, we know that humans cells, cannot cope with cancers etc. Therfore when they change, it alters our body for the worse.

    This is why mutations are not a basis for evolution.
  11. Standard memberfrogstomp
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    09 Jul '05 12:11
    Originally posted by ilywrin
    What do you mean by scientific fact? Evolution is a possible scientific model and for the lack of a better one it is widely accepted. It is simple, presents a
    scientific (logically consistent with the data) explainations, and most importantly, it is supported by a great deal of evidence. There are gaps in it, of course, but when a scientific theories colli ...[text shortened]... ps are explained through some other mechanisms /locally applied patches to amend the situation/.
    You have to understand, these guys have no clue to the use of the word theory '

    The present state of affairs in science is rekindling the original Lamarckian evolution of changes being activity actuated. Which had been thought wrong because (under ferocious attack by religions) geneticists found that the DNA wasn't changed that easily and science over Darwin's dead body adopted radiation random mutation. fast forwarding to the present it seems like exigenetics does explain how organisms survive long enough to enable a far less random mutation to occur.

    Hopefully, that was only a temporary victory of religion and the theory will once again be back on the right track.
  12. Standard memberDaemon Sin
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    09 Jul '05 12:431 edit
    Originally posted by Phledos
    Evolution is a way out, for those who do not believe in God.

    If you dont believe in evolution, then you likely believe in creation, which means you have to do something about it, as youre accountable to God.

    This is why many people believe evolution. It isnt nescessarily a fact.

    C ya ๐Ÿ™‚
    Evolution isn't a 'way out' at all. No one knows the exact answer to where we came from (if we evolved or were created) so they look to find it. Some people whole heartedly believe they've found that answer with Religion, other people follow the factual path of science. Whatever their explenation they made the choice they wanted with their own free will.

    Just because you don't believe in Evolution, it doesn't give you the right to degrade it by calling it a 'way out' and insinuating that it's the wrong choice. Surely your religion teaches you to respect people's free will and not to scorn other's beliefs!
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    09 Jul '05 13:28
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    Another question. Is evolution a scientific fact?
    No sir. A fact, especially in the sciences, must be testable or repeatable, to be taken as such.

    Evolution stands as a valid theory, as does creationism, as a proposed explanation for the origin of man

    from Dictionary.com
    Main Entry: fact
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Latin factum deed, real happening, something done, from neuter of factus, past participle of facere to do, make
    1 : something that has actual existence : a matter of objective reality
    2 : any of the circumstances of a case that exist or are alleged to exist in reality : a thing whose actual occurrence or existence is to be determined by the evidence presented at trial

    At this point, neither evolution or creationism, would pass the 'evidence presented at trial' factor listed above, and be proclaimed as a fact.

    What we must accept is that all we can do here is see which way most of the evidence moves us....and then take the last step by faith. Ooops, I said the 'F' word!
  14. Joined
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    09 Jul '05 13:36
    Originally posted by Daemon Sin
    Evolution isn't a 'way out' at all. No one knows the exact answer to where we came from (if we evolved or were created) so they look to find it. Some people whole heartedly believe they've found that answer with Religion, other people follow the factual path of science. Whatever their explenation they made the [b]choice they wanted with the ...[text shortened]... ur religion teaches you to respect people's free will and not to scorn other's beliefs![/b]
    You suggest here that evolution is a chosen belief. Well said. Sure there are some stepping stones of science in there, but it would be good if more folks would admit that it is, as you said, just a 'belief'.

    By the way, we are all brought up to respect the free will of others (much as God does in allowing evil to persist), but it must be clear that no every one can be right in their beliefs. At some point there is a contradiction, and then only one can be right. It is not 'scorn' to point this out.
  15. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    09 Jul '05 13:39
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    I have just completed a brief unit on genetis and remain sceptical about evolution. I find it difficult to comprehend that a series of mistakes in our genes past on to offsrping can cause for instance the complex structure of the eye to develop.
    I know the eye is extremely necssary to most mammals survival but can't see how it could be caused by what re ...[text shortened]... against evolution (althouhg it could be) but more of difficulty for me to understand evolution.
    Evolution is as close to being a proven fact as is possible. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence in its favor. Because you cannot comprehend how it works speaks more about your lack of understanding than about any shortcomings in evolution.
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