1. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    02 Dec '11 20:19
    I was surprised and disappointed by the support for caning/spanking on this forum.

    IF YOU CAN STAY ON TOPIC please contribute your opinion and rationale.
  2. Cape Town
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    02 Dec '11 20:37
    Corporal punishment does work, but it is the lazy way out. It is not the best way to teach your children.
    It is also cultural in that people often treat their children the way they were treated as children.
  3. Account suspended
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    02 Dec '11 20:393 edits
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    I was surprised and disappointed by the support for caning/spanking on this forum.

    IF YOU CAN STAY ON TOPIC please contribute your opinion and rationale.
    Firstly i cannot find any support for caning among the posters of the forum, never
    the less, it brings up the point of appropriate punishment. When i was a child, I
    uttered some profanity, having been warned that if i did it again, i would have my
    mouth washed out with soap, naturally i ignored the sentiments and proceeded to
    utter more profanities, my mother then carried out her threat and i can tell you, i did
    not need to think twice about uttering profanity in her presence any more. The
    important thing is, as far as my own experience as a parent goes is making the child
    understand why the course of action they have taken is unacceptable, this involves
    reasoning with the child and takes time and effort, if reasoning fails then what
    course of action are you left with? more reasoning? i have seen parents issue
    countless warnings to no avail and their children, fully cognisant of their parents idle
    threats continue in the same manner almost regardless and yet there comes a point
    which cannot be transgressed. To provide either no guidance or no corrective
    measures is not a kindness to a child as is excessive brow beating and draconian
    punishment both of which are counter productive.
  4. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    02 Dec '11 21:00
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Firstly i cannot find any support for caning among the posters of the forum, never
    the less, it brings up the point of appropriate punishment. When i was a child, I
    uttered some profanity, having been warned that if i did it again, i would have my
    mouth washed out with soap, naturally i ignored the sentiments and proceeded to
    utter more prof ...[text shortened]... ld as is excessive brow beating and draconian
    punishment both of which are counter productive.
    I wonder what else you were learning as your mouth was washed with soap and water? If punishment really worked wouldnt there be a systematic approach in schools and society?

    My 10yr old foster son came from a home of violence and bad language. He has a "Police Record" in that his mother had to call the police 3 times when he was violent to her and his siblings. He has a record of bullying. He has (I am told) a large repertoire of swear words.

    My partner and I do not swear. We are not violent.
    Guess what?
    Neither is the boy now.
  5. Standard memberAgerg
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    02 Dec '11 21:045 edits
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    I was surprised and disappointed by the support for caning/spanking on this forum.

    IF YOU CAN STAY ON TOPIC please contribute your opinion and rationale.
    With respect to misbehaviour of (young) children three reactions spring to mind (there may be more):
    Try to reason with the child
    The problem with this is that young children, in general, haven't yet developed the capacity to understand the physical, societal, financial, ... consequences of their actions (even if spelt out by the figure of authority, parent, teacher, ...) as such they are ill-equipped to chain these notions together so to conclude for themselves that doing X is bad.

    Put them on "the naughty step"
    I suppose this can be effective (for some young mindsets) in the long run but the problem I see with this is that it's a war of attrition, and in certain settings - like the classroom for instance it isn't feasible (since the attention of the teacher is focused more on keeping the child on/in whatever counts as a "naughty step" (if they can!) - the other children (or the teacher) suffer)

    Give them a short sharp shock
    Pain is evolution's way of telling us to stop doing whatever caused that pain (immediately and without pause for thought ) - and I'm sure many animals that mete out such punishment to their young would tell us (if they could) that it's effective. In the case of young humans such punishment can dissuade a child from doing X long before he/she has the mental tools to understand *why* he/she shouldn't do X. Indeed for all our (in many ways superficial) sophistication we humans are still animals, and I argue (within reason) that we shouldn't defy the system that got us to the point where we could articulate other less violent solutions to misbehaviour (and within reasons means not thrashing the youngster to within an inch of it's life btw).
    The fact that we are, en-masse, defying it (in favour of non-violent methods) seems to be a test of concept: is it the case our "less primitive" solutions will work better in the long run than a method tried and tested the world over by a system (evolution) which is stable, self correcting, and favours optimisation (in a local sense)?

    I am pessimistic on this one - very pessimistic.
  6. Standard memberRajk999
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    02 Dec '11 21:21
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    I was surprised and disappointed by the support for caning/spanking on this forum.

    IF YOU CAN STAY ON TOPIC please contribute your opinion and rationale.
    Everything works with kids, but there is a time and place for it.

    Talk to them
    Show them love and affection
    Play with them
    Teach them
    Give them chores
    Give them Play time
    Make them read and study and learn
    Teach them the Bible
    Laugh with them
    Cry with them
    Correct them
    Spank them
    Be firm with them
    Be lenient with them

    Parenting requires a little of everything. The best kids come from homes where ALL types of encouragement and support and punishment are used. Smart parents know when to spank and know when not to.

    As for modern educational psychologists .. DONT WANT THEM NEAR MY KIDS .. thanks.
  7. Account suspended
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    02 Dec '11 21:222 edits
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    I wonder what else you were learning as your mouth was washed with soap and water? If punishment really worked wouldnt there be a systematic approach in schools and society?

    My 10yr old foster son came from a home of violence and bad language. He has a "Police Record" in that his mother had to call the police 3 times when he was violent to her and his ...[text shortened]... s.

    My partner and I do not swear. We are not violent.
    Guess what?
    Neither is the boy now.
    I learned that their are limits of tolerance and behaviour that is acceptable and
    unacceptable. As far as i can tell there is a systematic approach to punishment in
    school and society but there is another force which is anti authoritarian which when
    coupled with abuse of power on the part of those who are supposed to set an example
    (my brother was arrested once for taking pictures for his IT company simply because
    he had a pony tail and looked like a hippy) and in many instances, sheer negligence to
    provide even a semblance of guidance (as your foster sons example indicates prior to
    you setting an example) and you have a recipe for disaster.
  8. Account suspended
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    02 Dec '11 21:241 edit
    Originally posted by Agerg
    With respect to misbehaviour of (young) children three reactions spring to mind (there may be more):
    [b]Try to reason with the child

    The problem with this is that young children, in general, haven't yet developed the capacity to understand the physical, societal, financial, ... consequences of their actions (even if spelt out by the figure of authority, imisation (in a local sense)?

    I am pessimistic on this one - very pessimistic.[/b]
    an excellent post, you have actually found a use for the evolutionary hypothesis! It
    must be remarked that what works for one child may not necessarily work for the next.
  9. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    02 Dec '11 21:33
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Everything works with kids, but there is a time and place for it.

    Talk to them
    Show them love and affection
    Play with them
    Teach them
    Give them chores
    Give them Play time
    Make them read and study and learn
    Teach them the Bible
    Laugh with them
    Cry with them
    Correct them
    Spank them
    Be firm with them
    Be lenient with them

    Parenting requires a ...[text shortened]... n not to.

    As for modern educational psychologists .. DONT WANT THEM NEAR MY KIDS .. thanks.
    Your rationale?
    Particularly
    Make them read and study and learn (how? I'm sure every teacher would be fascinated by how you make a child read!)

    Teach them the Bible (Why?)

    Spank them (at last on topic .... but why?)
  10. Standard memberRajk999
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    02 Dec '11 21:36
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    Your rationale?
    Particularly
    Make them read and study and learn (how? I'm sure every teacher would be fascinated by how you make a child read!)

    Teach them the Bible (Why?)

    Spank them (at last on topic .... but why?)
    Read to them and teach them how to read

    The Bible is the word of God

    It works.
  11. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    02 Dec '11 21:38
    It should be a very temporary form of punishment. To be phased out asap.
    Ideally used when the child is a toddler and would do something much worse than the actual punishment ,ie run on the road.

    Corporal punishment should not be out of anger and rashness. It should be calculated and calm. It should more for shock value than to induce pain.

    I've raised 2 kids and both got smacked a few times when they were 2-3.
    Corporal punishment was then quickly phased out as just the threat of corporal punishment took over, and then as the child became older, more creative techniques took that over.
  12. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    02 Dec '11 21:39
    Originally posted by Agerg
    With respect to misbehaviour of (young) children three reactions spring to mind (there may be more):
    [b]Try to reason with the child

    The problem with this is that young children, in general, haven't yet developed the capacity to understand the physical, societal, financial, ... consequences of their actions (even if spelt out by the figure of authority, ...[text shortened]... imisation (in a local sense)?

    I am pessimistic on this one - very pessimistic.[/b]
    Reasoning with children using appropriate language is very effective - I'm not sure at what age it becomes effective but it is surprisingly young and does work for all school children.

    A "naughty step" or "naughty chair" does work but I would only use this as a last resort - i would actually blame myself for not having dealt with the behaviour better on prior occassions.

    Short sharp shock? IT JUST DOESNT WORK. I agree we are conditioned not to do anything that is painful (I believe in letting children explore their environment and getting cuts and bruises to discover what is and is not safe). But having the pain administered by an adult whom hopefully they look up to is barbaric! It builds animosity and resentment as well as condoning violence.
  13. Account suspended
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    02 Dec '11 21:43
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    Reasoning with children using appropriate language is very effective - I'm not sure at what age it becomes effective but it is surprisingly young and does work for all school children.

    A "naughty step" or "naughty chair" does work but I would only use this as a last resort - i would actually blame myself for not having dealt with the behaviour better o ...[text shortened]... y look up to is barbaric! It builds animosity and resentment as well as condoning violence.
    But having the pain administered by an adult whom hopefully they look up to is
    barbaric,

    nope cant say i ever thought of my mother as barbaric and half the time i felt
    the punishment was deserved!
  14. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    02 Dec '11 21:43
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Everything works with kids, but there is a time and place for it.

    Talk to them
    Show them love and affection
    Play with them
    Teach them
    Give them chores
    Give them Play time
    Make them read and study and learn
    Teach them the Bible
    Laugh with them
    Cry with them
    Correct them
    Spank them
    Be firm with them
    Be lenient with them

    Parenting requires a ...[text shortened]... n not to.

    As for modern educational psychologists .. DONT WANT THEM NEAR MY KIDS .. thanks.
    I more or less agree with your appraisal.
    I just wanted to know what "modern educational psychologists " are you talking about, and more importantly what methods are you refering to that you dont want your kids to be taught?
  15. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    02 Dec '11 21:49
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    1. Read to them and teach them how to read

    2. The Bible is the word of God

    3. It works.
    1. Originally you said "make them read" not read to them or teach!

    2. Perhaps there is a god, perhaps the bible is the word of god. my question is still
    Why teach them the bible.

    3. How? I have seen only the opposite.
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