02 Dec 11
3 edits
Originally posted by wolfgang59Firstly i cannot find any support for caning among the posters of the forum, never
I was surprised and disappointed by the support for caning/spanking on this forum.
IF YOU CAN STAY ON TOPIC please contribute your opinion and rationale.
the less, it brings up the point of appropriate punishment. When i was a child, I
uttered some profanity, having been warned that if i did it again, i would have my
mouth washed out with soap, naturally i ignored the sentiments and proceeded to
utter more profanities, my mother then carried out her threat and i can tell you, i did
not need to think twice about uttering profanity in her presence any more. The
important thing is, as far as my own experience as a parent goes is making the child
understand why the course of action they have taken is unacceptable, this involves
reasoning with the child and takes time and effort, if reasoning fails then what
course of action are you left with? more reasoning? i have seen parents issue
countless warnings to no avail and their children, fully cognisant of their parents idle
threats continue in the same manner almost regardless and yet there comes a point
which cannot be transgressed. To provide either no guidance or no corrective
measures is not a kindness to a child as is excessive brow beating and draconian
punishment both of which are counter productive.
02 Dec 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI wonder what else you were learning as your mouth was washed with soap and water? If punishment really worked wouldnt there be a systematic approach in schools and society?
Firstly i cannot find any support for caning among the posters of the forum, never
the less, it brings up the point of appropriate punishment. When i was a child, I
uttered some profanity, having been warned that if i did it again, i would have my
mouth washed out with soap, naturally i ignored the sentiments and proceeded to
utter more prof ...[text shortened]... ld as is excessive brow beating and draconian
punishment both of which are counter productive.
My 10yr old foster son came from a home of violence and bad language. He has a "Police Record" in that his mother had to call the police 3 times when he was violent to her and his siblings. He has a record of bullying. He has (I am told) a large repertoire of swear words.
My partner and I do not swear. We are not violent.
Guess what?
Neither is the boy now.
02 Dec 11
5 edits
Originally posted by wolfgang59With respect to misbehaviour of (young) children three reactions spring to mind (there may be more):
I was surprised and disappointed by the support for caning/spanking on this forum.
IF YOU CAN STAY ON TOPIC please contribute your opinion and rationale.
Try to reason with the child
The problem with this is that young children, in general, haven't yet developed the capacity to understand the physical, societal, financial, ... consequences of their actions (even if spelt out by the figure of authority, parent, teacher, ...) as such they are ill-equipped to chain these notions together so to conclude for themselves that doing X is bad.
Put them on "the naughty step"
I suppose this can be effective (for some young mindsets) in the long run but the problem I see with this is that it's a war of attrition, and in certain settings - like the classroom for instance it isn't feasible (since the attention of the teacher is focused more on keeping the child on/in whatever counts as a "naughty step" (if they can!) - the other children (or the teacher) suffer)
Give them a short sharp shock
Pain is evolution's way of telling us to stop doing whatever caused that pain (immediately and without pause for thought ) - and I'm sure many animals that mete out such punishment to their young would tell us (if they could) that it's effective. In the case of young humans such punishment can dissuade a child from doing X long before he/she has the mental tools to understand *why* he/she shouldn't do X. Indeed for all our (in many ways superficial) sophistication we humans are still animals, and I argue (within reason) that we shouldn't defy the system that got us to the point where we could articulate other less violent solutions to misbehaviour (and within reasons means not thrashing the youngster to within an inch of it's life btw).
The fact that we are, en-masse, defying it (in favour of non-violent methods) seems to be a test of concept: is it the case our "less primitive" solutions will work better in the long run than a method tried and tested the world over by a system (evolution) which is stable, self correcting, and favours optimisation (in a local sense)?
I am pessimistic on this one - very pessimistic.
02 Dec 11
Originally posted by wolfgang59Everything works with kids, but there is a time and place for it.
I was surprised and disappointed by the support for caning/spanking on this forum.
IF YOU CAN STAY ON TOPIC please contribute your opinion and rationale.
Talk to them
Show them love and affection
Play with them
Teach them
Give them chores
Give them Play time
Make them read and study and learn
Teach them the Bible
Laugh with them
Cry with them
Correct them
Spank them
Be firm with them
Be lenient with them
Parenting requires a little of everything. The best kids come from homes where ALL types of encouragement and support and punishment are used. Smart parents know when to spank and know when not to.
As for modern educational psychologists .. DONT WANT THEM NEAR MY KIDS .. thanks.
02 Dec 11
2 edits
Originally posted by wolfgang59I learned that their are limits of tolerance and behaviour that is acceptable and
I wonder what else you were learning as your mouth was washed with soap and water? If punishment really worked wouldnt there be a systematic approach in schools and society?
My 10yr old foster son came from a home of violence and bad language. He has a "Police Record" in that his mother had to call the police 3 times when he was violent to her and his ...[text shortened]... s.
My partner and I do not swear. We are not violent.
Guess what?
Neither is the boy now.
unacceptable. As far as i can tell there is a systematic approach to punishment in
school and society but there is another force which is anti authoritarian which when
coupled with abuse of power on the part of those who are supposed to set an example
(my brother was arrested once for taking pictures for his IT company simply because
he had a pony tail and looked like a hippy) and in many instances, sheer negligence to
provide even a semblance of guidance (as your foster sons example indicates prior to
you setting an example) and you have a recipe for disaster.
02 Dec 11
1 edit
Originally posted by Agergan excellent post, you have actually found a use for the evolutionary hypothesis! It
With respect to misbehaviour of (young) children three reactions spring to mind (there may be more):
[b]Try to reason with the child
The problem with this is that young children, in general, haven't yet developed the capacity to understand the physical, societal, financial, ... consequences of their actions (even if spelt out by the figure of authority, imisation (in a local sense)?
I am pessimistic on this one - very pessimistic.[/b]
must be remarked that what works for one child may not necessarily work for the next.
02 Dec 11
Originally posted by Rajk999Your rationale?
Everything works with kids, but there is a time and place for it.
Talk to them
Show them love and affection
Play with them
Teach them
Give them chores
Give them Play time
Make them read and study and learn
Teach them the Bible
Laugh with them
Cry with them
Correct them
Spank them
Be firm with them
Be lenient with them
Parenting requires a ...[text shortened]... n not to.
As for modern educational psychologists .. DONT WANT THEM NEAR MY KIDS .. thanks.
Particularly
Make them read and study and learn (how? I'm sure every teacher would be fascinated by how you make a child read!)
Teach them the Bible (Why?)
Spank them (at last on topic .... but why?)
02 Dec 11
Originally posted by wolfgang59Read to them and teach them how to read
Your rationale?
Particularly
Make them read and study and learn (how? I'm sure every teacher would be fascinated by how you make a child read!)
Teach them the Bible (Why?)
Spank them (at last on topic .... but why?)
The Bible is the word of God
It works.
02 Dec 11
It should be a very temporary form of punishment. To be phased out asap.
Ideally used when the child is a toddler and would do something much worse than the actual punishment ,ie run on the road.
Corporal punishment should not be out of anger and rashness. It should be calculated and calm. It should more for shock value than to induce pain.
I've raised 2 kids and both got smacked a few times when they were 2-3.
Corporal punishment was then quickly phased out as just the threat of corporal punishment took over, and then as the child became older, more creative techniques took that over.
02 Dec 11
Originally posted by AgergReasoning with children using appropriate language is very effective - I'm not sure at what age it becomes effective but it is surprisingly young and does work for all school children.
With respect to misbehaviour of (young) children three reactions spring to mind (there may be more):
[b]Try to reason with the child
The problem with this is that young children, in general, haven't yet developed the capacity to understand the physical, societal, financial, ... consequences of their actions (even if spelt out by the figure of authority, ...[text shortened]... imisation (in a local sense)?
I am pessimistic on this one - very pessimistic.[/b]
A "naughty step" or "naughty chair" does work but I would only use this as a last resort - i would actually blame myself for not having dealt with the behaviour better on prior occassions.
Short sharp shock? IT JUST DOESNT WORK. I agree we are conditioned not to do anything that is painful (I believe in letting children explore their environment and getting cuts and bruises to discover what is and is not safe). But having the pain administered by an adult whom hopefully they look up to is barbaric! It builds animosity and resentment as well as condoning violence.
02 Dec 11
Originally posted by wolfgang59But having the pain administered by an adult whom hopefully they look up to is
Reasoning with children using appropriate language is very effective - I'm not sure at what age it becomes effective but it is surprisingly young and does work for all school children.
A "naughty step" or "naughty chair" does work but I would only use this as a last resort - i would actually blame myself for not having dealt with the behaviour better o ...[text shortened]... y look up to is barbaric! It builds animosity and resentment as well as condoning violence.
barbaric,
nope cant say i ever thought of my mother as barbaric and half the time i felt
the punishment was deserved!
02 Dec 11
Originally posted by Rajk999I more or less agree with your appraisal.
Everything works with kids, but there is a time and place for it.
Talk to them
Show them love and affection
Play with them
Teach them
Give them chores
Give them Play time
Make them read and study and learn
Teach them the Bible
Laugh with them
Cry with them
Correct them
Spank them
Be firm with them
Be lenient with them
Parenting requires a ...[text shortened]... n not to.
As for modern educational psychologists .. DONT WANT THEM NEAR MY KIDS .. thanks.
I just wanted to know what "modern educational psychologists " are you talking about, and more importantly what methods are you refering to that you dont want your kids to be taught?
02 Dec 11
Originally posted by Rajk9991. Originally you said "make them read" not read to them or teach!
1. Read to them and teach them how to read
2. The Bible is the word of God
3. It works.
2. Perhaps there is a god, perhaps the bible is the word of god. my question is still
Why teach them the bible.
3. How? I have seen only the opposite.