Originally posted by The file userFunny...
No one can answer that I guess.
If I believed that god hears prayers, then I would ask him directly.
So if noone knows the answer of this particular question, then I can safely conclude that god doesn't hear prayers, or he just doesn't care.
God created a perfect world, and the original inhabitants. In that world, there was no sin, no sickness, no disease, and no death. The humans he created with free will, and eventually they decided to disobey God's rules that maintained the perfect world.
Since then, the world has become more, and more inperfect. The humans began to deal with hunger, death, disease, etc.. including their children.
God promised a bring about a new heaven and new earth to correct this in His own time - to do what you are implying He should do - put a stop to the suffering. The problem is that the old world must be completely destroyed or it will corrupt the new.
So God is in the process of allowing the old world to be destroyed in his plan to do as you implied should be done. He will populate his new world with only those souls who have demonstrated a lifelong commitment to love, joy peace, patience, and self-control.
Originally posted by 1ymmijWell, that sounds very clumsy and poorly thought out on God's part.
So God is in the process of allowing the old world to be destroyed in his plan to do as you implied should be done. He will populate his new world with only those souls who have demonstrated a lifelong commitment to love, joy peace, patience, and self-control.
You believe that God is omniscient, yes? Then he knew before creation which humans would show a lifelong commitment to love, joy, peace, etc. So, why not create ONLY those types of people, and leave out the more flawed ones altogether? Why not START with the perfect, 'new' world, filled with 100% virtuous humans, and spare everyone all the suffering?
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Originally posted by SwissGambitI would like to know where is it stated that god is omniscient, for i do not hold this to be such, and as for knowing before hand I think it was a question of sovereignty, whether, God had the right to exercise dominion over humankind and 2. whether humans could rule themselves successful independent from god as was proposed in the Garden of Eden, i.e, 'you will become like God knowing good and bad'
Well, that sounds very clumsy and poorly thought out on God's part.
You believe that God is omniscient, yes? Then he knew before creation which humans would show a lifelong commitment to love, joy, peace, etc. So, why not create ONLY those types of people, and leave out the more flawed ones altogether? Why not START with the perfect, 'new' world, filled with 100% virtuous humans, and spare everyone all the suffering?
Originally posted by SwissGambitWe are born with a free-will. To be 100% virtuous you would be born without a free-will and have to be a robot. Even though our children grieve us when they misbehave, we would not want them to be incapable of choosing right from wrong. To get back to the original question....we sometimes do question "Why?" I have had a son who had multiple handicaps, and now a grandaughter with a strong heart...unlike my son...but with everything else wrong. These things happen and it hurts. But, it does not destroy my faith in the ultimate outcome of God's Plan.
Well, that sounds very clumsy and poorly thought out on God's part.
You believe that God is omniscient, yes? Then he knew before creation which humans would show a lifelong commitment to love, joy, peace, etc. So, why not create ONLY those types of people, and leave out the more flawed ones altogether? Why not START with the perfect, 'new' world, filled with 100% virtuous humans, and spare everyone all the suffering?
Originally posted by robbie carrobieMany times in the Bible, God or his prophets see the future. It also claims that God knows everyone's thoughts, etc. Because of these sorts of claims, many believers think God is omniscient. If you are not one of them, then my argument is not really directed at you.
I would like to know where is it stated that god is omniscient, for i do not hold this to be such, and as for knowing before hand I think it was a question of sovereignty, whether, God had the right to exercise dominion over humankind and 2. whether humans could rule themselves successful independent from god as was proposed in the Garden of Eden, i.e, 'you will become like God knowing good and bad'
I think there are problems with the sovereignty argument as well, but I will save that for another time.
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Originally posted by ale1552People will still have free will in the new world, yes? And yet they will not commit evil deeds.
We are born with a free-will. To be 100% virtuous you would be born without a free-will and have to be a robot. Even though our children grieve us when they misbehave, we would not want them to be incapable of choosing right from wrong. To get back to the original question....we sometimes do question "Why?" I have had a son who had multiple handicaps, an ...[text shortened]... appen and it hurts. But, it does not destroy my faith in the ultimate outcome of God's Plan.
If you deny that people have free will in the world, do you still admit that the new world is a big improvement on this one?
The problem with your argument is this statement:
To be 100% virtuous you would be born without a free-will and have to be a robot.This is false. There could be someone wise enough to always choose good actions and never evil. If you deny this, then how do you explain your concept of God? Doesn't he have free will, yet always chooses good actions? You wouldn't call him a robot for doing so, would you?
Originally posted by SwissGambitI see your point. Jesus had a free-will and the Bible tells us he never sinned. And in the world to come, there will be no sin because evil will not exist anymore, neither will death or disease. I stand corrected.
People will still have free will in the new world, yes? And yet they will not commit evil deeds.
If you deny that people have free will in the world, do you still admit that the new world is a big improvement on this one?
The problem with your argument is this statement:[quote]To be 100% virtuous you would be born without a free-will and have to be ...[text shortened]... will, yet always chooses good actions? You wouldn't call him a robot for doing so, would you?
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Originally posted by mazda9934Answer is pretty simple in my mind.
Please bring to mind your image of God.
Then, please tell me why he allows very small children to suffer and die ??
(No one has EVER given me a plausible answer to this question)
God could have created us as robots so that we only do good. We'd be like angels with only the capacity to do good and nothing else.
This has not happened instead god gave us Free Will. So that we have the capacity to do so much good - even more than angels, at the same time we also have the capacity to do evil - the worst evil more than even the devil.
Free Will comes at a price. It comes with the capacity to do unlimited amounts of good and unlimited amounts of evil.
So your question is effectively saying why did he give us free will? In the bigger picture of things perhaps it was necessary.
Think about it say you were creating robots. Would you make them so that they always obey your instructions without fail and question? or would you give them the freedom to make their own choices? Remember freedom will come at a price...
(ps not read all replies - so apologies if i repeat something allready said)
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Originally posted by zafartimeSo your question is effectively saying why did he give us free will?
Answer is pretty simple in my mind.
God could have created us as robots so that we only do good. We'd be like angels with only the capacity to do good and nothing else.
This has not happened instead god gave us Free Will. So that we have the capacity to do so much good - even more than angels, at the same time we also have the capacity to do evil ...[text shortened]... e at a price...
(ps not read all replies - so apologies if i repeat something allready said)
No, his question is why does God allow very small children to suffer and die. For instance, throughout history, many neonates have suffered and died with various painful natural afflictions and illnesses. As far as I can tell, if I ask you why did God allow this, that is not effectively asking you why did God give us free will.
Originally posted by LemonJelloif you read my post above fully you should see how I arrived at that question.
[b]So your question is effectively saying why did he give us free will?
No, his question is why does God allow very small children to suffer and die. For instance, throughout history, many neonates have suffered and died with various painful natural afflictions and illnesses. As far as I can tell, if I ask you why did God allow this, that is not effectively asking you why did God give us free will.[/b]
Originally posted by LemonJelloBecause free will is messy given to an entire race, bad things can
[b]So your question is effectively saying why did he give us free will?
No, his question is why does God allow very small children to suffer and die. For instance, throughout history, many neonates have suffered and died with various painful natural afflictions and illnesses. As far as I can tell, if I ask you why did God allow this, that is not effectively asking you why did God give us free will.[/b]
and will be done if people choose to do them.
Kelly
