1. Standard memberfinnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    To the Left
    Joined
    25 Jun '06
    Moves
    64930
    24 Mar '17 14:57
    The Covenants of the Prophet Muhammad with the Christians of the World

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unfundamentalistchristians/2013/12/review-the-covenants-of-the-prophet-muhammad-with-the-christians-of-the-world/

    Thoughtful, accessible and scholarly, The Covenants of the Prophet Muhammad with the Christians of the World offers important evidence for understanding Islam as a religion founded on ideals of respect and tolerance, ideals that, if evinced today in the way that Muhammad originally intended, have the potential to redefine modern religious and cultural interactions.

    More information about the covenants themselves can be found online at The Covenants Initiative , which also features an online petition for Muslims to sign declaring the binding nature of the covenants. More details about the book can be found on the Patheos Book Club page.

    “And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with a means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury); but say, “We believe in the Revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; and our God and your God is One, and it is to Him we bow (in Islam).” Qur’an 29:46
  2. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    24 Mar '17 16:05
    Originally posted by finnegan
    .... unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury);...
    I think you will find that most people willing to blow themselves up strongly believe that someone has inflicted a wrong against them.

    The reality is that the vast majority of Muslims are peace loving people just as nice or not nice as the rest of us. The problem is the few Muslims involved in various conflicts - which I must note invariably have two sides. The problem is that it is easy to group Muslims in Nigeria with Muslims in Syria but not so easy to group the Nigerian Christian government with the Syrian government.
  3. Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    86367
    24 Mar '17 18:464 edits
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I think you will find that most people willing to blow themselves up strongly believe that someone has inflicted a wrong against them.

    The reality is that the vast majority of Muslims are peace loving people just as nice or not nice as the rest of us. The problem is the few Muslims involved in various conflicts - which I must note invariably have two s ...[text shortened]... in Syria but not so easy to group the Nigerian Christian government with the Syrian government.
    I really don't want to get into a row with you over this but I don't agree with you on any of these points.

    Jihadsts do not feel "harmed", they feel divinely empowered and commissioned

    The "majority" of Muslims living in the western world are probably peace loving. But, the majority of Muslims do not live in the western world and of those willing to kill for whatever reason "peace" is neither the driver nor blocker. It is a belief in religious totalitarian spiritual superiority.

    When I was working in Saudi I was told quite unequivocally that in the city main areas I was very safe but if I strayed off the main drag or foolishly drove into the desert, then it would probably end very badly for me. The people he was referring to were not at war, they were not seeking to leave Saudi and create terror, they were just born, bred and lived in an ancient religiously superior orientated society which believed the West and its people were degerate and killing them was doing Allah a favour.

    Now we can fudge all we like about western and moderate Muslims, but the religious powerhouse of Islam is Saudi Arabia.
  4. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    24 Mar '17 19:12
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Jihadsts do not feel "harmed", they feel divinely empowered and commissioned
    Yet the majority live in war zones and attack specific countries/enemies.
    Perhaps you could expand on why you think I am mistaken?

    The "majority" of Muslims living in the western world are probably peace loving. But, the majority of Muslims do not live in the western world
    Where do they live? Do you know?

    and of those willing to kill for whatever reason "peace" is neither the driver nor blocker.
    I am not certain what you are saying here. Are you saying that in third world nations that are peaceful, there are just as many islamic terrorists as in third world nations that are not peaceful?

    When I was working in Saudi I was told quite unequivocally that in the city main areas I was very safe but if I strayed off the main drag or foolishly drove into the desert, then it would probably end very badly for me. The people he was referring to were not at war, they were not seeking to leave Saudi and create terror, they were just born, bred and lived in an ancient religiously superior orientated society which believed the West and its people were degerate and killing them was doing Allah a favour.
    Do you have any evidence of actual crimes of this nature?

    Now we can fudge all we like....
    So if I tell you I have friends who are Muslim, then I am 'fudging'? You are being disingenuous.

    about western and moderate Muslims, but the religious powerhouse of Islam is Saudi Arabia.
    And the religious powerhouse of Christianity is the Vatican. After all, the majority of Christians are Roman Catholic. And I would be careful where you go in Northern Ireland. Those die hard Catholics feel very superior to protestants.
  5. Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    86367
    24 Mar '17 19:181 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Do you have any evidence of actual crimes of this nature?
    Do you have evidence for the actual claims you just made?
  6. Standard memberfinnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    To the Left
    Joined
    25 Jun '06
    Moves
    64930
    24 Mar '17 20:29
    Originally posted by divegeester
    I really don't want to get into a row with you over this but I don't agree with you on any of these points.

    Jihadsts do not feel "harmed", they feel divinely empowered and commissioned

    The "majority" of Muslims living in the western world are probably peace loving. But, the majority of Muslims do not live in the western world and of those willing ...[text shortened]... like about western and moderate Muslims, but the religious powerhouse of Islam is Saudi Arabia.
    The significance of the OP lies in the evidence that the extremist, fundamentalist and sectarian style of 'Islamism' fostered especially by the Wahhabi sect with Saudi Arabian funding is historically an aberration and quite at odds with the recorded teaching of the Prophet Mohammed. The major victims of Muslim extremism are traditional Muslilms.
  7. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Infidel
    Dunedin
    Joined
    09 Jun '07
    Moves
    45641
    25 Mar '17 03:35
    Originally posted by finnegan
    The major victims of Muslim extremism are traditional Muslilms.
    As is clear by the terrorism in Afghanistan (10th Jan), Egypt (10th Jan), Pakistan (12th Feb),
    Syria (15th March), etc.

    As much as the gung-ho Right wingers would like it is not US v THEM
  8. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    25 Mar '17 08:39
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Do you have evidence for the actual claims you just made?
    I'll take that as an 'I've got nothing but don't have the honesty to say so'.
  9. Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    86367
    25 Mar '17 09:10
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I'll take that as an 'I've got nothing but don't have the honesty to say so'.
    I thought we were sharing opinions as you post was obviously yours, but if you want to get into "evidence" then the onus is on you to start.
  10. Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    86367
    25 Mar '17 09:11
    Originally posted by finnegan
    The significance of the OP lies in the evidence that the extremist, fundamentalist and sectarian style of 'Islamism' fostered especially by the Wahhabi sect with Saudi Arabian funding is historically an aberration and quite at odds with the recorded teaching of the Prophet Mohammed. The major victims of Muslim extremism are traditional Muslilms.
    I don't disagree.
  11. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10087
    25 Mar '17 14:261 edit
    Originally posted by finnegan
    The significance of the OP lies in the evidence that the extremist, fundamentalist and sectarian style of 'Islamism' fostered especially by the Wahhabi sect with Saudi Arabian funding is historically an aberration and quite at odds with the recorded teaching of the Prophet Mohammed. The major victims of Muslim extremism are traditional Muslilms.
    In the end, what does it matter? It only matters what THEY believe.

    Do you think they would take correction from you?
  12. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
    Brisbane,QLD
    Joined
    11 Apr '09
    Moves
    91614
    26 Mar '17 00:24
    the terrorists (muslim ones) are' created' and funded by the media.
    The fact that Saudi Arabia is NOT on Trumps travel banning is of so telling
  13. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    27 Mar '17 06:50
    Originally posted by divegeester
    I thought we were sharing opinions as you post was obviously yours, but if you want to get into "evidence" then the onus is on you to start.
    I was right. You simply don't have the honesty to say 'I've got nothing'. Instead, you are now trying to hide behind the claim that neither of us have anything, so its all fine. My guess is that you don't actually want to discuss this topic at all.
  14. Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    86367
    27 Mar '17 11:01
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I was right. You simply don't have the honesty to say 'I've got nothing'. Instead, you are now trying to hide behind the claim that neither of us have anything, so its all fine. My guess is that you don't actually want to discuss this topic at all.
    Stop being such a big girls blouse. We were sharing opinion, first you shared your opinion and then I shared mine. If you want to get into "evidence" then present some.
  15. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    27 Mar '17 11:33
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Stop being such a big girls blouse.
    I asked you a straight forward question and you dodged - in a somewhat rude manner I might add, rather than give an honest answer. And now you are following up with insults.

    We were sharing opinion,
    Good to know that your story about experiences in Saudi were not factual at all but just your opinion.
    Most of what I said however was not opinion at all. Not surprising though that you want to paint it as such. But feel free to discuss any of my points, just don't do so as a means to dodge questions or as an attempt to insult.
Back to Top